10 Myths About School Shootings

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Well so far the Air Marshals and armed pilots seem to be working out just fine.

As best I can tell, there has been no recent case where an air marshal has actually stopped any serious incident. The threat of them may be helping, but keep in mind that we went 20+ years without any hijackings at all.

The terrorists are very patient. They probably will get more effective weapons on aircraft the next time, almost certainly using TSA or other employees to transport them onto the aircraft.

The background checks being done on these employees has failed to weed out the low lifes (note the huge numbers of thefts from luggage under the watchful eye of TSA). If they cannot even prevent rampant petty theft, how can they prevent weapons getting past them?
 
Flight 93 ;)

I hate to say this, because no one wants to even think about kids getting hurt, but the only ones who can really protect schools are faculty and students.

I am somewhat mystified that in Colorado a "lone gunman" could sexually assault six teenage girls, and none of them could do anything. And only one of the boys even tried to stand up to that monster. No faculty rushed in to help.

Now, I'm not blaming the kids (they are probably reacting the way they are taught), but the simple fact is that the only people who can really prevent any crime is the people that are one the scene at the moment it happens.

CCW in school or not, there are plenty of weapons available: hard-bound textbooks, chairs, compass points, etc ....

This evil BS will stop when people fight back, and the maladjusted monster doesn't get his last few minutes of glory lording it over a bunch of innocent victims (probably the only time in their miserable lives that they have ever felt in control of a situation).

Yeah ... people might get hurt, but people (kids) are already being hurt and killed.

Put up all the metal detectors and guards you want, and somebody who wants to kill kids will drive a truck through the playground at recess :(
 
I agree that we need black-clad, rifle toting, guards in k-pots at all schools. Especially the public ones. Maybe we should throw a few pieces of riot armor on them as well.

Institutions of compulsory education have always served the purpose of conditioning the next generation for even greater social control so it only makes sense that today's five year olds be made ready for the boot that will be on their faces--forever.

Jawohl! Alles für die Kinder!
 
From a security standpoint, the best situation might be multiple armed and trained school staff whose status is kept confidential.

Exactly. Model it on the armed pilot program. Only a small percentage of pilots are actually willing to train and carry. But a bad guy can't know whether _this one_ is or not. If every school had 2-5 teachers and staff that carried every day and nobody but the very top people knew who they were, that would give you the maximum protection for no greater cost. A bad guy wouldn't be able to target the single armed guard. He wouldn't know which teacher or staff member just might shoot him when he started to walk down the hall.

Publicize the existence of the program widely. Make sure everybody is well aware that "some people at the school carry guns." But keep the actual participants secret.

It could work. And I say that as a teacher.

At the very least, it would make a nut case think twice about going after a school. It wouldn't be seen as such a soft target. An "unarmed victim" zone. The bad guy might just shift his focus to another target but at least the mall or state fair or whatever might just have a civilian with a CCW to take care of the situation.

Gregg
 
Qualification:
I work as a college campus police officer. I'd love for a few of the teachers around here to be armed. Give those wishing to carry should be trained, and a bit more than just the basic CCW course.

Columbine did a lot to change the standard response to an active shooter, espcially for me. Instead of isolating and waiting for SWAT, I have to go in and neutralize if at all possible. That's fine with me. And we do at least a small amount of training with the faculty/staff so that they will react properly. If you're near the classroom/line of fire but not in it, get out of the area (if possible). Students need to be taught too. If you're in that classroom, get down. It's easier for me to shoot the BG if the kids are on the floor and the BG is standing/kneeling. Just clear the target somehow.

If you're being held by the gunman, and I come in the room, drop your butt to the floor. Straight down, and cover up. Risky, sure, but better than me having to squeeze a round beside your head into the BGs.

Just rambling thoughts. I guess the point is, talk to staff/students. Give them options to think about. Run them through hypothetical scenarios. Let the teachers that want to carry and want to train be a part. We have two retired FBI agents, a SWAT medic (who does shoot with them) and several hunter/gun enthusiasts that would probably be glad to help.

Above all else, like another poster said, FIGHT BACK somehow. Use whatever you've got, but fight back. It's better than going out kneeling and tied up.
 
I'd love for a few of the teachers around here to be armed. Give those wishing to carry should be trained, and a bit more than just the basic CCW course.

That one is easy:

They have to qualify the same level as a police officer in their locality (city or county).

There should be no question that people trained to that level would be covered under the city or counties insurance policies. I should think that 2 weeks at the police academy for their state or locality would provide them all the training necessary.
 
TallPine said:
I am somewhat mystified that in Colorado a "lone gunman" could sexually assault six teenage girls, and none of them could do anything. And only one of the boys even tried to stand up to that monster. No faculty rushed in to help.
In fairness to the faculty, I believe it was SWAT who first reported/discovered the sexual assaults were occurring so I'm guessing they had some sort of covert electronic surveillance. Small mics or cameras. Faculty woulda long since fled or been evacuated.

The one kid who did try and stay had the right instincts that something would happen along with a lotta guts, but someone shoves a gun in your face and threatens to kill you, and you tend to shift outta Hero Mode and into Survivor Mode.
 
The list above was based on a study done in 2002. It seems to concentrate on students being perpetrators. Well that has changed lately. The shootings in Canada, Colorado, and now Lancaster Pa, all involved adults not students at the school.


Here is my addition to the list of Myths:

Myth #11 the shooters are all students and know/ have a grudge against their victims.
 
There is no "solution" to this type of thing. The nearest to a solution is the same as in the case of airline hijackings - take the regulation out that prohibits staff from wearing their firearms. We don't need gov to "arm teachers" anymore than we needed gov to "arm pilots". What we need is gov out.

----------------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
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There is no "solution" to this type of thing. The nearest to a solution is the same as in the case of airline hijackings - take the regulation out that prohibits staff from wearing their firearms. We don't need gov to "arm teachers" anymore than we needed gov to "arm pilots". What we need is gov out.

I agree that we need gov out... but I do not agree that there is no "solution"

There is actually one thing in common with all of the shooters... they are being demonically influenced. There is just no way that any human could do this to other humans without that influence.

Problem is, there are few who can actually identify this influence when present... and those that can are not typically involved with crime profiling.

And for those of you that do not believe in such things... irrelevant... truth never depends on belief.

And I believe that all who wish to should be able to carry in schools... with additional training provided free of charge to covert volunteer teachers... with no addition governmental control of those teachers... just voluntary, free additional training.

And to know that something is going to happen before it happens... Volunteer intercessory prayer teams in each and every school to sense the demonically influenced and deal with them before they become shooters. Deal with them by helping them... not throwing them in jail for a "potential" crime... but just in case they miss something... the armed are there to protect.

That's my solution and I'm sticking to it....
 
It is true that the real common link is that evil people committed vile acts.

I am not sure that is especially meaningful as regards stopping such acts.

One of the problems we have in this country is that we have disassociated the vile acts from the people that commit them. We pretend that somehow no human being could ever do such a thing, so there is no reason to take any effective action to prevent such acts.

Then when the acts occur, we take more non-effective actions.

Really, the only way to deal with evil is for good to actively oppose it, and that has become politically incorrect. Political correctness says we should defer such action to LE officials who are almost never present when such acts occur. Thus we are left primarily with actions that are not real effective - like suspending a first grader for bringing a plastic knife to school to cut up her chicken at lunch time.

Not long ago, I came across a school rule book published on the web for an elementary school. I don't recall just how long it was, but it was well over 100 pages long, and contained hundreds of complex rules the students were supposed to follow. My first thought was how can kids who cannot even read yet grasp what behaviors have been forbidden? They can't read the rules yet, and really, they are not going to understand them if they could.
 
I remember hearing at one time that some of them took ridilin or similar drugs, but I guess that isn't a trend either.

Not some. Every single one of those I looked into.

Myth No. 2. “He just snapped.”
Myth No. 3. “No one knew.”
Myth No. 9. “We did everything we could to help him.”

That last one makes me want to cuss.

What this spells to me is what the people running the schools want is quiet, and if they get it, they don't care what kind of torment their charges are in.

I think that the problem is the schools. Schools are not a normal environment. Nor are they especially pleasant for the kids being run through them. It does not surprise me if some of them snap.
 
Armed guards wont work. To expensive, even if there is one and he is on one of the school when a shooting happens if a kid like just recently happened got an AK, it doesn't take long to pump out 30 rounds into a crowd. By the time the guard gets from one end of the school to the other the action could be over and done with.

Plus armed guards are a target. Two kids wanting to shoot up the school only need to know how many armed guards there are, about where they will be, and bam no more armed guard.

The best soloution is to just allow people who want to carry a gun to be allowed to carry it. Maybe even offer teachers who would like to have a gun at work an incentive liek a small bonus or paying for their ccw course or something. That is the best soloution, just like it is the best soloution for court houses, air ports, planes, trains, etc. When you have god knows how many other people armed it makes it a lot harder for you to pull off an attack. If on 9/11 a few passangers had been carrying the trade center would still be standing. If at columbine some teachers had been packing there would still have been some likely damage but it would have been minimalized.
 
I agree that schools are not set up correctly escpecially for most boys - males are not genetically programmed to sit still for hours on end listening to boring teachers or studying boring (to them ) material.

Boys need to get out and run around, they have different needs (most of them) from most girls, it is proven that their attention spans and abilities at activities are different but schools try to make everyone fit into one mold - it doesn't work so some students go to the extreme.

Note I said MOST - it is not an abolute hard and fast line which is why schools need to quit treating everyone exactly the same.

If schools would change their operation from "babysitting" or "daycaring" children to teaching them at their own individual paces and needs things would be better. Even the hours for schools are not set up to be most beneficial to the students ability to learn - most teenagers are not morning people and if the day would be broken up more learning would increase.


Some people cannot stand being a square peg constantly being forced into a round hole and these are the ones that lose it.
 
I can remember when i was in elementary school. Lunchtime and recesses were when boys could be boys and get it out of the system.

We played tag and football and wrestled around. Teachers were there to make sure it did not get out of hand but almost never had to interfere.

We were not allowed to play tackle football at recess but two hands below the knees often ended being about the same thing.

PE was dodge ball and other "manly" games.

I was told recently by a parent at a local school that the school district has removed all the play ground equipment. No more swings, slides, or merry-go-rounds. The kids are not allowed to engage in any activity that involves running, jumping, or throwing. I gather they just mill around out on a concrete area. Not even allowed to go out on the grass.

Same school tried to ban kids riding bikes to school but eventually relented as long as they wear "approved" safety gear (helmets, elbow and knee pads). The gear and bike has to be inspected and approved by the school in writing. Basically you have to get a license to ride your bike to school.
 
I remember hearing at one time that some of them took ridilin or similar drugs, but I guess that isn't a trend either.

I looked into that, and the anecdotal evidence was compelling. Mostly they are taking anti-depressents, not Ritalin, which is a stimulant used to treat, oddly enough, children diagnosed with attention deficit dissorder.
 
Andrew Rothman has it right, IMO:

COMMENTARY:
It's time for new thinking about guns in schools
By Andrew Rothman

In the last two weeks, we've seen a rash of deadly school shootings. In
Bailey, Colo., an armed man burst into a school, held six girls hostage,
molesting some of them before killing one of the girls and then himself. In
rural central Wisconsin, a 15-year-old boy shot and killed his school
principal.

And in Lancaster, Pa., Charles Carl Roberts IV took 10 Amish girls hostage
at a school, then shot them, execution-style. At this writing, five girls
have died, one has been removed from life support and brought home to die,
and four are still hospitalized.

Roberts wasn't Amish, police say, and held no particular grudge against
them. According to Pennsylvania's State Police commissioner, he just picked
the school because it was close, and had little or no security.
In all of these murders, the perpetrators chose to attack where they knew
there would be no effective resistance to their violence.

Unfortunately, that is the situation in almost all of our schools.
FBI statistics have proven that the single most effective means of
preventing violent harm is to resist with a firearm. And yet our lawmakers
and school officials have effectively assured that these deadly attacks will
continue to occur in our children's schools.

It doesn't have to be this way. In Israel, after PLO terrorists targeted
school children in 1974, the government started letting reservists keep
their guns at home and carry them on the streets.

Teachers and school nurses started to carry guns, armed parent (and
grandparent) volunteers patrolled the schools, and no field trips were
taken without armed guards.

As a result, the terrorists gave up on schools as targets. Well, one
particularly stubborn terrorist attempted a suicide attack in 2002, but an
Israeli teacher shot him before he harmed anyone.

In March 2005, when Jeff Weise killed his police officer grandfather, stole
his police guns and drove to Red Lake High School, he had nine minutes
before police arrived, time enough to kill an unarmed security guard, a
teacher and five students and to shoot and seriously injure seven more.

An armed guard, an armed principal or an armed janitor could have
stopped him within those nine minutes and cut short his deadly rampage.

Some will undoubtedly argue that more guns can only lead to more violence.
But to do so is to fall prey to the worst sort of moral relativism.
Offensive violence and defensive force are not the same; force, even lethal
force, in the protection of innocent lives, is a moral right embraced by
Mahatma Ghandi, the Dalai Lama, the Bible, the Koran, the Talmud, and every
legal system in our history from Minnesota Statutes to the 4,000-year-old
Code of Hammurabi.

Under Minnesota law, schools and day cares may allow faculty, staff, parents
or visitors with carry permits to carry a defensive firearm in the school.
All it takes is a letter of permission from the principal, superintendent or
day care director.

As a firearm instructor, I'm willing to do my part. I, or one on my fellow
certified instructors, will provide carry permit training, at no charge, for
any public school employee with such permission.

Minnesota school officials, we need those permissions to be given -
Minnesota's children are worth protecting.

Andrew Rothman, of Chanhassen, is a certified firearm instructor, executive
director of the Minnesota Association of Defensive Firearm Instructors
(www.madfi.org) and the father of two children who will soon be of school
age.
 
Myth No. 3. “No one knew.”

"Before most of the attacks, someone else knew about the idea or the plan. "In most cases, those who knew were other kids: friends, schoolmates, siblings and others. However, this information rarely made its way to an adult." Most attackers engaged in some behavior prior to the incident that caused concern or indicated a need for help."


That's the one that stands out to me. The question is, how do you get kids to realize how serious the situation could become and to tell an adult about it? Threat of collaboration charges? Reward? I wish I knew.
 
at my school, we have an SRO, school resource officer. She's basically a cop who just kicks it at the school all day, i have no idea what the hell she does, but whatever.

And yes i do feel a little safer knowing that there is a cop on campus packing heat. i seriously doubt anyone would pull a school shooting at my school.
 
I hate to say this, because no one wants to even think about kids getting hurt, but the only ones who can really protect schools are faculty and students.
That bears repeating. It's an unpleasant truth. There are no magic bullets. Of the few school shooters who've been stopped before completing the rampage, most have been stopped by teachers and administrators. Resource officers and guards are good, and thank God for ours, but they can't be everywhere. Shooters either target them first (people forget that there were armed guards at Columbine High School, which earned those guards the distinction of being among the first shot) or they time their movements. We have two resource officers on duty at any given time. Generally some seem to be discreetly armed, others either aren't or I can't detect their weapons. Either way, if you were a 13-year-old bent on mayhem, don't you think you could evade two resource officers long enough to get it done? I could.

In most schools, the plan is that a general announcement will be made, usually in code. Upon hearing the announcement, teachers will lock their rooms, turn off all electrical devices, cover all windows, turn off the lights, gather students far from windows and doors, and report via intercom or notes under the doors any students who are not in the room (nurse, library, restroom, etc.) NOTHING brings us out except a prearranged signal I won't share over the internet. Clever tricks like fire alarms are to be ignored.
This means I won't be roaming the halls looking for an active shooter. My responsibility is absolutely clear. I hole up with the children in my charge and protect them with my life.

So the question boils down to this:
What will the people who are attacked do to save themselves? They're the only ones who are going to be there and no one else is going to be rushing toward them for at least the first few minutes. Probably much longer. I know what I plan to do if it happens in my presence. I don't know how many teachers have made such a plan. I do know that possession or lack of a firearm wouldn't change my plan very much.

I believe there is a profile to the incidents, if not the shooters. There will be little or no warning when the event actually occurs. The warnings come in the days, weeks, or months beforehand. So yes, we have a plan for the day the shooter shows up, but that's not where we put most of our energy. Most of our energy goes into stopping bullying, communicating with parents, and dealing with every kid. Nobody should be shrugged off. Nobody should be treated like his problems are stupid or they don't matter.

We could rail about parents and TV and videogames and a hundred other things, but we don't control those things.
 
I looked into that, and the anecdotal evidence was compelling. Mostly they are taking anti-depressents, not Ritalin, which is a stimulant used to treat, oddly enough, children diagnosed with attention deficit disorder.

The anecdotal evidence is pretty clear that a large percentage of very troublesome students are taking mood altering drugs of some kind.

The question is whether the drugs are causing a problem, or if the drugs are being given to those prone to cause trouble. Either or both could be the case.

There is also some anecdotal evidence that at least a few of the adult shooters were HIV positive. A not uncommon but rarely talked about side effect of HIV is that it can cause a form of dementia. It is very un-PC to even mention this so it is almost never brought up.
 
Yeah, and the other compelling part was that they didn't have school shootings back in the days before they had the mood altering drugs. I don't know that for a fact, but it seems to be the case and worth investigating. Furthermore, kids would often bring guns to school in those days for legitimate activities, especially during hunting season.

It aint the guns.
 
Myth No. 8. “He’d never touched a gun.”

Most attackers had access to weapons, and had used them prior to the attack. Most of the attackers acquired their guns from home.

I really thought long and hard about this one. I have 2 young girls and I decided that while I am introducing them to guns and shooting, they will not have open access to any firearm until they are probably 16 or maybe 18 years old. Its a tough decision. I worry that maybe when they are teenagers if they are alone and someone breaks into the house they can use a firearm for self defense, but on the other hand they can use one of my guns to commit suicide, murder, or given to a friend.

Responsible gun owners with kids should keep their stuff under lock and key when not in use.
 
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