100% USA made AK by Century Arms?

[flakbait]

Century Arms makes a 100% USA made AK type rifle Centurion 39 sporter in 7.62X 39 complete with quad rails and a one inch longer stock (orginal AK build for short guys in heavy wool coats suitable for the Russian winter).

Does anyone have any experience with this gun or any alternatives (i.e. US made AK47)?

Most AK type rifles are a mix of foreign and domestic parts so I always wonder what kind of accuracy is obtainable...

 

[nalioth]

First off, it's not 100% USA made. Century is using the letter of the 922r law to advertise it as such.

Secondly, anything Century produces (not imports) is gonna be a roll of the dice.

My suggestion is to buy and convert a Saiga. You'll be better off and most likely come out ahead in the finance department.

 

[Z-Michigan]

100% agree with Nalioth on his second and third points.

However, if you're referring to the "Centurion" which I've linked below, Century is advertising this as containing 100% new US-made parts, and specifically stating no imported parts. So unless Nalioth is alleging blatant fraud by Century, it is genuinely a US-made gun.

http://www.centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=RI1622-N

However, being truly US-made wouldn't necessarily be a good thing, as most of us who've looked at it suspect that a lot of those parts are investment castings made as cheaply as possible, and that would be inferior quality to almost any imported parts kit. This is just a suspicion, not an established fact, but I sure don't think Century is getting all the little parts drop forged.

Finally, for the $800 or asking price, you can buy a far nicer Arsenal SGL-21 (Russian-made AKM imported as a Saiga and converted by Arsenal USA) and still have a little money left over, or you could buy a sporter Saiga, convert it yourself, and have a couple hundred bucks left over for mags and ammo. Either way you end up with a much nicer AK.

 

[flakbait]

So you think that Russian made AK's (Saiga) remanufactured by the US company Arsenal are among the best, good quality AK?

Any others makers?

Do you think getting random Chinese (Norinco), Yugo, Romanian AK's (WASR) is like a crap shoot?

I understand that the AK was designed for illiterate peasants to use/maintain but we in the US enjoy quality and accuracy in our guns.

 

[Z-Michigan]

So you think that Russian made AK's (Saiga) remanufactured by the US company Arsenal are among the best, good quality AK?

Yes, I do. A Saiga that you convert yourself with sufficient time and effort also would be. Another option, though a very poor value in my view, would be the "Bulgarian" pattern AKs made by Arsenal.

US-made AKs by Century are made by barely skilled / barely trained low wage workers who know their product is going to the plinking market. Saigas are turned out in the same family that makes military AKs for the Russian and other armies. All parts are to military spec except those which can't be due to law (e.g. now full-auto mode). The very important bolt, carrier, barrel, and receiver are to spec. The barrel is hammer-forged and chrome lined.

A completely US-made AK will have a cheap button rifled barrel not attempting to hold any tight tolerances. Yes, I will take the Saiga barrel over that any day of the week. And if my suspicion about investment casting of nearly all parts is correct (with the bolt probably machined from billet), then I would also take most imported parts kits as well.

Non-Russian AKs vary all over the map, even within a country. Romanian WASRs are bottom end, while Romanian G-code are somewhat better. Yugoslavia knew how to make nice rifles but most of the ones here are made from parts kits, usually from rifles that saw heavy combat and are correspondingly worn. Most of the Chinese AKs were good quality, but again there was a range from merely good to excellent (and they're mostly collectible now since import ended almost 20 years ago).

If you have a US-made agenda, fine, but if you want the best AK pattern rifle you can buy, my comments are above.

 

[desidog]

I'd be very leery of Century. Google "Century drunk monkeys" for other folk's experiences with them.

Also, take a look on youtube and elsewhere for videos on restoring a Saiga sporter to the proper ergonomics. It is really easy to do, and you can take more pride of ownership at the same time as saving some loot and ensuring you've got a good weapon.

 

[ugaarguy]

IIRC the Century 100% US Made AK is made in GA by Masterpiece Arms.

 

[nalioth]

I am quite sure that if Century built an AK factory, someone would know about it.

I am also sure that if Century is producing each and every part for an AK here in the USA, the price would be in the quadruple digits.

Century is asking for a fraud lawsuit with it's "No imported parts" phrase, IMHO.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I am quite sure that if Century built an AK factory, someone would know about it.
I am also sure that if Century is producing each and every part for an AK here in the USA, the price would be in the quadruple digits.

You could be right... but (1) the price is uncomfortably close to 4 digits anyway, and (2) I don't think it would be much work to disassemble an existing AK and use all the little parts as samples to do investment casting molds from. Some work, yes, but not like setting up a huge foundry.

I'm sure the truth will come out eventually. For now I'm going with my investment-cast-copies theory. Anyway, we both agree that it's not a top choice among current AK options.

 

[nalioth]

I honestly think Century is pulling the wool over our eyes with this one.

Why not buy a "US made AK" from a smaller (and whose reputation is better) outfit?

 

[Maverick223]

I understand that the AK was designed for illiterate peasants to use/maintain but we in the US enjoy quality and accuracy in our guns.

I'll surely get some flak for this, but if you expect a quality, accurate AK, you can keep dreaming...there simply is no such beast. IMO the Saiga (when properly converted) is about as good as they come, and is crude by western standards; that said, it is still a good gun and despite the mediocre fitment and finish it has a well deserved reputation for being a good value. If you want something that has tight tolerances, better accuracy, and a superior fit and finish you may want to look at a VZ.58, or better yet something designed by a Western nation (like an M1 Carbine, AR-15, et al).

 

[Ragnar Danneskjold]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that which makes an AK so reliable, it's loose tolerances, also makes in inaccurate. The tight machined tolerances of AR platforms make it accurate, but also prone to foul-ups.

 

[scorpiostang]

go with a completed ak

honestly the saigia isn't that great of a money saving deal as everyone says. I got mine last december for i belive 340 plus tax. Add in the pistol grip 20, buttstock 60, bullet guide 20, fcg 40, (i'm sure i'm forgetting something) and your at 500 ish for a bare minimum one. I had mine like that untill today ironicaly and i had to get a new gas tube 35, fc retaining plate 7 (optional because i didnt like the pin stuff i had holding it), lower hand guard retainer 85, and then my new more traditonal looking ak front grip 40. So im at 670 for a stripped ak. If i wanted a threaded front sight block and the ability to accept bayonets i'm sure i would be at the cost of an arsenal one and i didn't even paint over the bottom of the reciver yet, so the finish is not attractive. Also i had the frustration of the build (which is fairly easy minus some of the little parts and filing that took forever).
Now the build was frustrating but i did it just to see if i could do it. Now that i know i can i would never attempt it again as opposed to buying a finished rifle. I also live in an awb state so i could'nt have my bayonet or threaded barell anyways.
Btw im still learning to shoot so i can't report groups, but this rifle does it part for me.

 

[nalioth]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but that which makes an AK so reliable, it's loose tolerances, also makes in inaccurate

It is the operators that make guns "inaccurate".

The Kalashnikov was not designed to be a 600m point shooter, as our M16 was. For what it is, it is as accurate as you (the shooter) are.

Claiming a Kalashnikov is inaccurate is like complaining that a Porsche 911 isn't a good family car.

 

[Maverick223]

It is the operators that make guns "inaccurate".

That is generally the case, though that isn't to say it is a tack driver (or RR spike driver for that matter) by any stretch...only "accurate enough" as Kalashnikov would put it.