I picked up some 180gr XTP projectiles in order to load some hot 10mm and see what I could get out of them. I have a couple pounds of 800-X, so I want to use that, besides, I heard it gives good velocities in 10mm. My problem is that I have conflicting data. My Lyman manual lists start and max charges of 6.8 and 8.4 grains, seated to 1.25", velocity of 1073 FPS (for 180gr JHP). I also have one of the LoadBook USA books, it gives start and max charges of 6.7 and 10.1 grains, seated to 1.26" giving a velocity of 1250 FPS (for 180gr XTP). So my question is, is Lyman publishing CYA data, or is the LoadBook data way out of the ballpark?
10mm 800-X Data
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SwaneeSR
Member
Well the Hodgdon site lists a max load of 8.7 grains for the following.
BULLET WEIGHT180 GR. SIE JHC
ManufacturerIMR
Powder800-X
Bullet Diameter.400"
C.O.L.1.260"
Starting Load
Grains
Velocity (ft/s)
Pressure
Maximum Load
Grains8.7
Velocity (ft/s)1,210
Pressure30,000 PSI
10.1 grains and a powder that doesn't meter well urges caution.
That is pretty hot. Nice to chrono when working up to a hot load.
BULLET WEIGHT180 GR. SIE JHC
ManufacturerIMR
Powder800-X
Bullet Diameter.400"
C.O.L.1.260"
Starting Load
Grains
Velocity (ft/s)
Pressure
Maximum Load
Grains8.7
Velocity (ft/s)1,210
Pressure30,000 PSI
10.1 grains and a powder that doesn't meter well urges caution.
That is pretty hot. Nice to chrono when working up to a hot load.
.338-06
Member
I've been looking for 800x to use in my 10mm for a while! 800x gives good velocities at lower pressure. for 180g bullets a max of 8.7gr is supposed to give you a little more than 1200fps at 30000psi while other powders give the same results at 35000-36000psi.
SwaneeSR
Member
I tried 800x in some .40sw loads. Not the best metering. In the end, I used up all 4lbs in my 12gauge trap loading.
10mm seems to be good with 800x, but not so much anything else.
10mm seems to be good with 800x, but not so much anything else.
Where did you get that data? I don't doubt you, just looking for additional sources since 10mm data is kind of scarce. I hope to be able to push it to velocities quoted in the LoadBooks USA manual, 1250 FPS with a 180gr bullet seems nice. I think I'll work up to the lower max, then pending pressure signs, work up from there. I think I'll also run over to Field and Stream during my lunch break and look for a Hornady manual, I've seen one there before
I believe that data is from the Hodgdon reloading site (http://www.hodgdonreloading.com/data/pistol). Be careful with the Hornady manual as they load it much hotter than 8.7 grains...
I assume SIE JHC means Sierra Jacketed Hollow Cavity? That's the only load the site returned for 800-X 180gr bullet. As a rule of thumb, I can use say Gold Dot data for XTP as long as the weight and profile (JHP, FMJ, LSWC, etc) are the same?
Well, for me, I did make an assumption that the two bullets were similar enough to not go too much past the 8.7 grain number. I looked at the Hornady, Lyman, and Hodgdon data and used the 10% less than Hodgdon data as a starting load and worked up to the Hodgdon max. I did test a little over the Hodgdon data as the Hornady goes way higher, but settled on the max Hodgdon as a good load. My numbers out of a stock Glock 20 where average velocity of 1210 fps, with SD of 15 on a 5 shot group. I was able to do much better than that with AA #9 max book value at 1298 FPS average and SD of 6. I have seen on other forums people pushing 800X harder and getting the ~1300 fps numbers (low 9 grain numbers). I tend to rely on the manufacturers numbers as they seem to have the latest data available - Hornady #9 was from 2012, and it is possible something has changed since then. There is a 10mm specific forum (10mm-firearms.com) with lots of discussions around this and ammo pull downs from manufactured ammo (Underwood, Doubletap, etc) who have used 800X in their hot loads.
Also, when I took a step back and thought about it - what is 100 fps really? I decided to not chase velocity, but accuracy and shoot-ablity...
Also, when I took a step back and thought about it - what is 100 fps really? I decided to not chase velocity, but accuracy and shoot-ablity...
Looking at your first post, the Loadbook data is the same and the Hornady #9 data. When I tested 9.0 grains it achieved ave velocity of 1237 fps, but I thought primers were starting to show signs. I was using Federal 150M primers and they are supposed to be rather soft though. Also, I used an RCBS Chargemaster Duo to do all of the metering of 800X as it is known to not meter well.
Another reason I do not 100% trust the Hornady data is that their chart shows a charge of 9.0 grains achieving a velocity of 1150 fps, but in my testing 9.0 grains got me to the 1237 fps number - my assumption is that the newer lots of 800X might be a little different... (and that is with a shorter barrel than they are using!)
Another reason I do not 100% trust the Hornady data is that their chart shows a charge of 9.0 grains achieving a velocity of 1150 fps, but in my testing 9.0 grains got me to the 1237 fps number - my assumption is that the newer lots of 800X might be a little different... (and that is with a shorter barrel than they are using!)
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Thank you very much for the info! Is the Hornady data pushing things too much? I'd like to get good velocity, but not blow myself up. What are some other good books to get? I have Speer #14, Lyman 49th, Lee 2nd (I believe), and the load books. I'm going to look for the Hornady today. I'll also check out that website.
I have Winchester and CCI primers, and a uniflow powder measure. I also got a trickler to be precise on my charges
I have Winchester and CCI primers, and a uniflow powder measure. I also got a trickler to be precise on my charges
I do not remember seeing what gun you are using, but as long as you have good chamber support I would assume as long s you step up in small increments you can test safely... Look at the the cases and primers for pressure signs. I would assume that Hornady would have to put something on their errata section of the website for the book if the values where unsafe! I tend to like to reload my brass as long as I can, so I don't want to overwork it to the max... I have also heard that if you call into Hodgdon and talk to a tech they are more than happy to discuss load data with you! (I have done that with Hornady on a 9mm load in the past and it was a great conversation and I learned a lot)
I'm right there with you wanting to use brass as long as possible, especially in 10mm, stuff isn't cheap. I'm using a Glock 20 Gen 4 with a drop in KKM barrel. I guess I'll look at the Hornady manual and work up to their max. Does 800-X meter worse than 700-X? 700 is fairly bad in my experience haha
Another thought is that you can easily achieve 1200 - 1300 fps with many different powders in 10mm/180 grain bullets - it is just doing it with one you like and feel comfortable with! 800X is a great powder, and I have 1000 rounds loaded with it, I just got tired of measuring each one since I was at the max i wanted to go to. I didn't trust it with a powder drop at that charge weight and found several others that I do trust to be +/- 0.1 grain on a RCBS Inflow or Dillon drop (Longshot, BE-86, AA #9, etc).
Ok, with your KKM barrel you are in good shape. I have swapped that barrel in and out testing loads and case expansion is less than my stock Glock barrel, I can definitely notice the difference with calipers, but the real give away is when pushing them through the Redding GR-X die!
I hear you - 800X is a good powder and you have it! Good thing is you can easily get to 1200+ fps, and with testing further. I think the greatest thing to happen to us reloaders is the inexpensive chronograph!
I doubt it is with your KKM barrel, but only you know for sure with your testing. After firing and resizing with your resizing die use a case gauge or plunk test and determine (or just visual inspection). Seems this is up to a lot of debate and everyone feels different on the subject. I would say don't create an extra step if you do not need it (I tend to solve a lot of problems that I don't have just because I like to!). I have bought a lot of once fired 40 S&W range brass and I found for firing in my different 40 S&W chambered pistols it solved some issues for me. Lee also makes a more cost effective one, but I have never used/tested it.
Dave P
Member
Couple of thoughts:
I like 800x in 10mm. But measure carefully, easy to go too hot.
The reading push-thru die is nice to have, but if your case needs that much re-shaping, it might already be overstressed.
An interesting way to measure questionable cases: use your caliper and measure at the extraction groove. If that dimension is much different than a factory case, it is probably time to toss that case (and back off on the powder).
I like 800x in 10mm. But measure carefully, easy to go too hot.
The reading push-thru die is nice to have, but if your case needs that much re-shaping, it might already be overstressed.
An interesting way to measure questionable cases: use your caliper and measure at the extraction groove. If that dimension is much different than a factory case, it is probably time to toss that case (and back off on the powder).
keep us posted - I for one am very interested in your workups.
I think that once I get some brass cleaned, I'll start at 9.1gr 800-X and work up to max .1 at a time. Doing 10 rounds at each, checking for pressure signs at each interval. Worst case is I gotta pull some bullets and back down.
That being said, what's a good brass tumbler for $100 or less?
That being said, what's a good brass tumbler for $100 or less?
Don't laugh, I have an original Lyman 1200 Pro that is probably going on 20 - 25 years old that still works!
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