10mm auto from a revolver ballistics

[someguy2800]

I recently saw that Ruger is making a GP100 in 10mm auto that uses moon clips. I am intrigued by this because it would offer the ability to throw a larger bullet than a 357 magnum and because it would be a great competition gun with moon clips, in a smaller frame size than a 44 mag. Just curious for those that have a 10mm revolver, either a blackhawk, or S&W 610 or whatever, how much velocity are you loosing from the cylinder gap vs a 5" locked breech semi auto?

 

[mcb]

I only have a revolver in 10mm Auto so I don't have chrono data for both the revolver and semi-auto with a particular ammo type. That said I am currently throwing 180gr XTP at 1300 fps and 200gr XTP at 1250 from my 6.5 inch barrel S&W 610. I believe I could push it a bit faster as I have no pressure signs, primers are good, extraction easy etc and my load data is below what I have seen others use for my chosen components. Both of my loads are running just shy of 700 ft-lbs. I think 750 ft-lbs is safely achievable with heavy for caliber 10mm bullets.

Any if you want more velocity/energy a 10mm Auto revolver is easily converted to 10mm Magnum without loosing the ability to shoot 10mm Auto and 40S&W.

 

[ATLDave]

mcb, can you load cartridges for your 610 long? With the heavier bullets, you'd still have a lot of overlap between the case and the bullet...

 

[Varminterror]

Using the old rule of thumb (terrible science, but a close empirical approximation within the range of normal in-spec BC gaps), I would expect about a 9% velocity loss for an equal length auto barrel and revolver cylinder + barrel. 1.5% per thou of B/C gap.

I’m thinking pretty hard on whether or not I will buy the 10mm GP. I think the 44spcl is a better option, overall, but do fully expect to blow it up someday - whereas alternatively, I think I wouldn’t be quite as much at risk (from myself) with the 10mm version. Hanging 40S&W in a moon clip might be nice as well, since I have a lot of ammo and components for 10 and 40 on hand.

 

[mcb]

mcb, can you load cartridges for your 610 long? With the heavier bullets, you'd still have a lot of overlap between the case and the bullet...

I loaded most of my 610 ammo long. For competition I was loading Montana Gold 180gr CMJ at 1.195in and 200gr CMJ at 1.220 inch in a 40 S&W case and never had a bullet slipping problem even at 970 fps with the 180gr and 900 fps with the 200gr. I found loading long in the 40S&W case increased my accuracy enough to notice.

My 10mm Auto 180gr XTP load is right at SAAMI OAL of 1.260. My 200gr 10mm load is loaded over SAAMI at 1.280 inch. I was really trying to push it I would probably seat even longer. You can seat it as long as you want given the length of the cylinder, you're going to have bullet retention issues before you run our of cylinder length.

 

[someguy2800]

I only have a revolver in 10mm Auto so I don't have chrono data for both the revolver and semi-auto with a particular ammo type. That said I am currently throwing 180gr XTP at 1300 fps and 200gr XTP at 1250 from my 6.5 inch barrel S&W 610. I believe I could push it a bit faster as I have no pressure signs, primers are good, extraction easy etc and my load data is below what I have seen others use for my chosen components. Both of my loads are running just shy of 700 ft-lbs. I think 750 ft-lbs is safely achievable with heavy for caliber 10mm bullets.

Any if you want more velocity/energy a 10mm Auto revolver is easily converted to 10mm Magnum without loosing the ability to shoot 10mm Auto and 40S&W.

That would be enough for what I would want it for. I'm not sure how hot I would want to go with it being a 6 shot rather than a 5. The 10mm magnum is interesting, I've never hear of that cartridge but then I would be completely dependent on the moon clips for headspace wouldn't it?

 

[mcb]

That would be enough for what I would want it for. I'm not sure how hot I would want to go with it being a 6 shot rather than a 5. The 10mm magnum is interesting, I've never hear of that cartridge but then I would be completely dependent on the moon clips for headspace wouldn't it?

The 10mm Magnum would not be but the 10mm Auto and 40S&W would be. Just as the 10mm is not and 40S&W is dependent on the Moonclip in the factory configuration.

That said I love moonclips so I always see the option to use them as a perk not a liability.

 

[someguy2800]

The 10mm Magnum would not be but the 10mm Auto and 40S&W would be. Just as the 10mm is not and 40S&W is dependent on the Moonclip in the factory configuration.

That said I love moonclips so I always see the option to use them as a perk not a liability.

I want the moon clips for competition but I wouldn’t use them for plinking.

 

[Hoxviii]

As a fan of 10mm, I guess I'm confused as to the point of a 10mm auto in a revolver.

You're throwing .357 energies to juuust touching 41 mag, all while spending more on ammo and more on reloading components than if you just stuck with .357, and have to fight with moon clips.

Why not just run hot .357, or step up to .41; if you're shooting 10mm you aren't afraid of low-demand cartridges?

I'm not here to poopoo on you, just looking for some insight.

 

[ReloaderFred]

I generally get about 100 to 150 fps gain over a 4.5" SA Witness pistols when shooting the same loads in my 6.5" S&W Model 610 revolver, depending on the individual load. The revolver always delivers more velocity, even over my Cold Delta Elite with it's 5" barrel.

Hope this helps.

Fred

 

[someguy2800]

As a fan of 10mm, I guess I'm confused as to the point of a 10mm auto in a revolver.

You're throwing .357 energies to juuust touching 41 mag, all while spending more on ammo and more on reloading components than if you just stuck with .357, and have to fight with moon clips.

Why not just run hot .357, or step up to .41; if you're shooting 10mm you aren't afraid of low-demand cartridges?

I'm not here to poopoo on you, just looking for some insight.

The apeal to me would be mainly two things. A heavier fatter bullet than a 357 while still staying on a medium frame size, and moon clips for competition use.

Yes a 41 or 44 mag would be much more powerful, but at the cost of having to step up to an N frame or redhawk.

The moon clips would be great for timed shooting. With a moon clip you eliminate the chance of the cartridges hanging up in a speed loader or having one round hang up while ejecting since they all eject together.

 

[someguy2800]

I generally get about 100 to 150 fps gain over a 4.5" SA Witness pistols when shooting the same loads in my 6.5" S&W Model 610 revolver, depending on the individual load. The revolver always delivers more velocity, even over my Cold Delta Elite with it's 5" barrel.

Hope this helps.

Fred

That is very helpful, thank you.

 

[mcb]

The apeal to me would be mainly two things. A heavier fatter bullet than a 357 while still staying on a medium frame size, and moon clips for competition use.

Yes a 41 or 44 mag would be much more powerful, but at the cost of having to step up to an N frame or redhawk.

The moon clips would be great for timed shooting. With a moon clip you eliminate the chance of the cartridges hanging up in a speed loader or having one round hang up while ejecting since they all eject together.

Moonclips for rimless cartridges like 10mm/40S&W, 45ACP and 9mm are far more robust and less finicky about brass compatibility than rimmed cartridges like 38/357, 41 Mag, 44 Mag. The extractor grove on a rimless cartridge is far more consistent (brand to brand) and allows for the use of a thicker moonclip than the moonclip groove in a rimmed cartridge.

If you get the 10mm GP100 OP, go give it a try at an IDPA or even a USPSA match. I think the GP100 would be an excellent IDPA revolver and would still be fun at a USPSA match.

 

[Havok7416]

A side bonus to a 10mm revolver is your brass stays in the same county you fired it in. I've used my 610 more than once to generate brass for my autoloaders (although the 610 is tons of fun in its own right).

 

[Toprudder]

I probably would not consider a 10mm revolver unless I already had a 10mm semi-auto or even a 40 S&W. I do have a Witness Elite 10mm that really shoots well, as well as several semi-auto 40s, so the idea of having a 10mm revolver appeals to me. If I happen to work up loads that won't cycle my normal guns, or end up trying some bullets that just won't feed well, I can load them up in my revolver instead of pulling them. Same reason I bought a S&W 625 in 45acp.

 

[GarrettJ]

A few answers:

Shooting a 180 gr. bullet with 9.0 gr. Longshot, I averaged 1318 fps from the Colt Delta Elite, and 1326 fps from the 6.5" Blackhawk. So I would expect a 4-5/8" or 5" revolver to maybe be slightly slower than a 5" 1911, but not much slower.

Yes, you can load them long. Not as long as 10mm Magnum, but long enough to make a difference.



I've gotten over 1400 fps with the BH and long-loaded cartridges, and don't feel like I'm approaching dangerous territory yet. At the same time, I don't feel the need to magnumize the cartridge. If I want more power, I'll go to a bigger cartridge in a different gun. I can shoot "magnum" level .45 Colt out of the same size gun if so inclined.

Why a 10mm revolver? I ask why not? I like the 10mm and I like revolvers. That was enough reason for me. I shoot .357 and .44 Mag in semi-autos too. And I shoot .45 ACP through a revolver as well. I wonder if people get hung up over those also.

I can get .40 brass free at most ranges I shoot at, and it makes a fun plinking combo. Yes, I can (and do) shoot .357 and it will do the same thing the 10mm revolver does. Apparently I like variety.

 

[GarrettJ]

Oh yeah, I bought a few thousand frangible .40 bullets. Apparently, frangible=breakable. I've had 50 or so break off right at the end of the case when I load them.

So I spent $700 on a .40/10mm revolver so as to not waste $3 in bullets. Now I have a .40 wadcutter load.

 

[Mr.Revolverguy]

I split the video up into 3 segments and this is part 1

Chronograph Testing
Ammunition 135gr Nosler
Chronograph 3-5 Yards Downrange
Pistols:
Para Elite Hunter 10MM - 6in Barrel
S&W 610 10MM - 3 7/8in Barrel
Ruger Blackhawk 10MM - 6in Barrel

Chronograph Data
Para Elite Hunter
Hi = 1546
Low = 1503
Average = 1527
ES = 43
SD = 20

S&W 610
Hi = 1439
Low = 1179 Not sure what happened here, I feel like this was a misread by the chronograph. The round felt like all the others.
Average 1377
ES = 260
SD = 98

S&W 610 Remove the low shot
Average = 1417

Ruger Blackhawk
Hi = 1608
Low = 1527
Average = 1559
ES = 81
SD = 34

If nothing more this data tells me maybe my Hornady LnL AP Powder measure is not as consistent as I would like for it to be, though good enough for my range time. There is a reason I still load all of my rifle data on a single stage and trickling my final load.

Ruger Blackhawk 1559fps, Para Elite Hunter 1527fps, *S&W 610 1417fps.
I measured the cylinder gap of the revolvers by holding the cylinder to the rear of the frame as tight as I could get it. I am amazed at the tight fit of the Ruger Blackhawk.

Ruger Blackhawk Cylinder Gap .0025 -- .003 would not fit
S&W 610 Cylinder Gap .005 -- .006 would not fit

* S&W 610 Denotes Error correction by eliminating extreme low shot.

The loads you see mentioned in the video were safe in all pistols displayed, but it is recommended that you start 3-5% lower and work your way up to be safe.

My everyday 135gr range load will be aimed at 1400FPS.

Stay tuned for part 2 with the 175gr loads.

 

[Mr.Revolverguy]

I split the video up into 3 segments and this is part 2 of the series

Part1 135gr Load -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HlueG...

Chronograph Testing
Ammunition 175gr LSWC
Chronograph 3-5 Yards Downrange
Pistols:
Para Elite Hunter 10MM - 6in Barrel
S&W 610 10MM - 3 7/8in Barrel
Ruger Blackhawk 10MM - 6in Barrel

Chronograph Data
Para Elite Hunter
Hi = 1212
Low = 1189
Average = 1202
ES = 23
SD = 8

S&W 610
Hi = 1150
Low = 1128
Average 1141
ES = 22
SD = 7

Ruger Blackhawk
Hi = 1243
Low = 1219
Average = 1232
ES = 24
SD = 9

Ruger Blackhawk 1232fps, Para Elite Hunter 1202fps, S&W 610 1141fps.
I measured the cylinder gap of the revolvers by holding the cylinder to the rear of the frame as tight as I could get it. I am amazed at the tight fit of the Ruger Blackhawk.

Ruger Blackhawk Cylinder Gap .0025 -- .003 would not fit
S&W 610 Cylinder Gap .005 -- .006 would not fit

The loads you see mentioned in the video were safe in all pistols displayed, but it is recommended that you start 3-5% lower and work your way up to be safe.

My everyday 175gr range load will be aimed at 1200FPS.

Stay tuned for part 3 with the 200gr loads.

 

[someguy2800]

Great info! Thats exactly what I was looking for. The revolver doesn't give up much. I thought it would loose more being a relatively low capacity case compared to a 357.