10mm load data for 220 gr. bullets?

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Objekt

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I got a great deal on a bunch of 220 grain, plated, 10mm/.40 S&W diameter (.400") bullets, but now I'm thinking I got screwed, because I can't find load data ANYWHERE.

No published source lists anything heavier than 205 grains. I am not too excited about going with the recipe Bubba "heard about" at a gun show.

I guess I could work up from the 205 gr. load data (Lee reloading manual, actually for a cast bullet, but cast data is usually safe to use w/plated). But I'd still be exploring unknown territory.

***? Did I just buy myself a lot of small, shiny paperweights?
 
IMHO, the heaviest bullet weight for the 10mm would be 200 gr and I cap mine at 180 gr. I think you will opening up a can of worms going to a 220 ge bullet even if find one. Seating length, chambering and pressure immeadiately come to mind with that bullet weight. If you are thinking 41 mag, the bullet diameter is too large.
 
I cast and load 225gr bullets in the 10mm. Fun shooters.

Use 200gr data and work up slow. WSF and Blue Dot are decent powders.
 
There simply isn't much (if any) listed data on bullets heavier than 200gr for the 10mm. I have some 230gr Hardcast bullets I bought to reload with from DoubleTap. My advice to you is this, use slower burning powders such as 800x, Longshot, AA#7, AA#9. Head over to GlockTalk and look under the 10mm Reloading section. There are stickies and there is data using 220gr bullets, I promise!
 
800x it is

I picked up a pound of IMR 800X this morning. Spoke with several other reloaders, and yeah, the consensus is pretty much that I'll have to carefully work up from 200 gr. load data.

While at the store, I perused the Lyman 49th Edition reloading manual. Nope, no data for heavier than 200 gr. there, and it's a jacketed bullet.

I called Xtreme Bullets, which is more or less the current incarnation of West Coast Bullets, the name brand on my boxes. They don't offer any load data, apparently because they don't have liability insurance. Gee, thanks, scummy trial lawyers and jerks who hire them!

They did suggest that a Speer manual might have data for something heavier than 200 gr. in 10 mm, but I don't have a Speer manual, so I can't check.

This ground has been tread before over at Glock Talk. I found a few different recipes for the West Coast 220 gr. bullets in 10mm there. While it doesn't have the pedigree of published data, it's a place to start at least.

update:

800X is no good. It simply will not meter consistently in my Hornady Lock-n-Load powder dispenser. I was trying for 7.0 grains, but I got a whole lot of throws with 2.5, 3.5, 5.something, or even 7.5 grains. It was all over the place. I had to stop and measure every throw, which defeats the purpose of loading on a progressive press. I gave up after getting 18 rounds loaded. So much for 800X.

Titegroup is probably what I will try next. I know it meters well in my dispenser, and you need less of it compared to Blue Dot.
 
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Yeah 800X is not only a fast powder but it meters like crap. If you hand weigh charges it's fine but it's too finicky of a powder in the 10mm.
 
Agreed. Stick with slower powders. AA #9 meters like a dream, and should work. Blue Dot meters OK, and many use it in 10MM.
 
These are 220 loads for a .40. They would work in a 10mm. Adjust the OAL.

220gr LTC 3.5gr VV-N320 1.170” 809.1 178 (43) 5” Bbl
220gr Precision Moly 3.8gr VV-N320 1.185” 806 177.3 (57) 5” Bbl.
220gr D&J LTC-TJ 4.1gr WST ? ? >175 (26) Major, 5” Bbl
220gr D&J LTC-TJ 3.7gr AA2 1.200” 800 176 (36)
220gr D&J LTC 4.1gr WW231 1.200” 818 179 (38) 5” Bbl.
220gr D&J LTC 5.3gr AA5 1.200” 795.5 175 (38) 5” Bbl.
220gr D&J LTC 3.7gr WSL* 1.200” 825 182 (38) 5” Bbl.
220gr D&J LTC-TJ 4.0gr WSL* 1.230” 810 178 (27) 5” Bbl
220gr D&J LTC 4.1gr Universal 1.200” 829 180 (38) 5” Bbl.
220gr D&J LTC 4.2gr VV-N330 1.178” 828 182.1 (46) 5” Kart Bbl.
220gr D&J LTC-TJ 4.0gr WSF 1.180” 818 180 (25) 5” Bbl
220gr D&J LTC-TJ 4.9gr VV-3N37 1.200” 820 180.4 (12) 5” Bbl
220gr D&J LTC 4.6gr VV-N350 1.200” 842 185.2 (33) 5” Schuemann bbl
220gr D&J LTC-TJ 6.3gr WW571 1.200” 815 179.3 (12) 5” Bbl
 
A9 looks good

Thanks. Someone in another forum (http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=42&t=319727&page=1#bottom) directed me to some heavy .40 S&W loads compiled by Ohio IPSC shooter and amateur radio enthusiast Jeff Maas:http://www.k8nd.com/documents/hl40sw.pdf

Also found it at the Precision Bullets Company website: http://www.precisionbullets.com/PDF/maashl40sw.pdf

It's an interesting read, if several years old. I guess the IPSC/USPSA guys got into loading .40 S&W heavy so that they could make major power factor with a common cartridge. At least that's my reading of it. I'm sure I can adapt the given data to 10 mm (does anyone shoot 10mm in IPSC?). Unfortunately, none of the 220 gr. bullet loads use Accurate #9.

I'm leaning toward Accurate #9 today, as it meters well and has one of the slowest burn rates out there. Most likely, I'll try a pound each of a few different powders, until I find one that meters well, gives good, safe performance, and is available locally in quantity (4# or 8# jug).
 
Only mentioning this as a warning... it has been referenced twice in this thread to "start with 200grn data and work up". This is opposite of what you want to do. I'm sure you are aware of this, but I know how easy it can be to get a idea or concept in your head then go with it.....
 
How do you think companies develop loads for off the chart bullets?

They start with the nearest weight and work up. So for a 220gr bullet, use 200gr starting charge and work up.
 
LexDiamonds said:
Only mentioning this as a warning... it has been referenced twice in this thread to "start with 200grn data and work up". This is opposite of what you want to do. I'm sure you are aware of this, but I know how easy it can be to get a idea or concept in your head then go with it.....
Click to expand...

Actually, it sounds like you are the one who has things backwards. Care to explain?
 
It hardly is the case. I have loads that exceed 200gr data but are safe with 220gr bullets.

There is a lot more to internal ballistics than bullet weight. Bullet bearing surface has more to do with pressure than actual mass.

This is part of why I can push a 245gr JHP to 1125fps in a 10mm Automatic with 5 inch barrel and stay below SAAMI MAP for the cartridge. Also has to do with altering the timing of the peak pressure but that's another topic.
 
800x does meter like hell, but if you can individually weight out each charge, I think you will find it to be a fantastic powder. IF you are going to work up a load using 200gr load data, I strongly caution you to back off at least 2gr of powder. Not .2, 2.0 grs. Why?

You can get away with that if you're using 200gr load data for say, a 180grn bullet, but when the bullet you're shooting is heavier, you need to back off, especially since there is not real data from major powder makers for bullets over 200gr.
 
Got some test loads assembled yesterday. Used Accurate #9 and Blue Dot.

A9 sure does meter well.

I might take a stab at single-stage reloading with 800X, if I had a set of Lee dippers. Those flakes are so damn big, I could probably add or remove them with tweezers to make weight. Unfortunately, I don't have the right dippers.

800X reportedly meters OK in charge-bar systems. I have the right bushings for my MEC 600 Jr., so I'll use the remainder of the 800X for 12 ga. shotgun loads.

For the Accurate #9 loads, I basically did what you said. The Accurate guide (v3.3) lists a start load of 10.6 grains A9 under a 200 grain cast lead bullet. So I started with 9.0 grains. I also loaded small batches with 9.5 and 10.0 grains. The latter is still almost 2 whole grains under the maximum A9 load for a 200 gr. lead bullet (11.8 gr.).

For Blue Dot, there was more guesswork involved. Alliant doesn't publish data for anything heavier than 180 grains in 10mm. I took a WAG and put 8.0 grains Blue Dot under my 220 grainers, seating them from 1.261" to 1.277" OAL (I measured every one, since it was only 20 rounds). There is always some variation of seating depth in my progressive press, so I carefully check OALs when working up a new load.

Going to chrono this afternoon, weather permitting.

Also going to only load & shoot one round in the 610 at a time. I very much doubt I will have any signs of overpressure, let alone damage to me or the gun, but that way sympathetic detonations are impossible.
 
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LexDiamonds said:
Am I losing my mind?

You would want to treat 200grn data as absolute max with a 220grn bullet...
Click to expand...

OK, I think I see where you are coming from now. I didn't explicitly state it, but I assumed you understood I meant to start below minimum loads for 200 gr. bullets, then work up. See my post above for more detail. That's what I get for assuming.
 
Results

Got to the range today. I tested 6 different loads with the 220 gr. West Coast plated bullets.

Temperature was about 87*°F. Chronograph (Chrony Gamma) was ~10 feet from the muzzle. All shots were fired from a S&W 610 revolver with a 6.5" barrel. All rounds used the West Coast 220 grain plated bullets, and a CCI #300 Large Pistol primer, with mixed brands of 10mm Auto brass (mostly Starline, but some Winchester, Federal, and MidwayUSA). Units are feet/second except as noted. Statistics based on 10-shot strings.

Heavy 10mm 1
IMR 800X 7.0 grains
OAL = 1.280" +/- 0.010 (didn't measure every one, as they were nowhere near minimum OAL)
Min. speed:921.2
Max. speed:1012
Average speed:979.8
Standard Deviation:24.92

Heavy 10mm 2
Blue Dot 8.0 grains
OAL = 1.261-1.270 (I measured all of them from this point on)
Min. speed:914.2
Max. speed:997.8
Average speed:952.0
Standard Deviation:26.49

Heavy 10mm 3
Accurate #9 9.0 grains
OAL = 1.280-1.287
Min. speed:807.2
Max. speed:951.7
Average speed:872.0
Standard Deviation:38.84

Heavy 10mm 4
Accurate #9 9.0 grains
OAL = 1.263-1.275
Min. speed:857.9
Max. speed:923.4
Average speed:893.3
Standard Deviation:22.04

Heavy 10mm 5
Accurate #9 9.5 grains
OAL = 1.263-1.277
Min. speed:893.5
Max. speed:969.1
Average speed:936.4
Standard Deviation:24.79

Heavy 10mm 6
Accurate #9 10.0 grains
OAL = 1.264-1.277
Min. speed:956
Max. speed:1022
Average speed:980.8
Standard Deviation:22.37

As expected, IMR 800X gave the best velocity with the lowest powder mass. Blue Dot was the next most efficient performer. Accurate #9 was not so hot, needing a full 10.0 grains to outperform Blue Dot and 800X. However, Accurate #9 is the nicest to work with, as it meters with incredible consistency.

Based on these results, I'm leaning toward Blue Dot. While it does not meter quite as consistently as Accurate #9, it is a far more efficient powder in terms of (quite literally!) bang for the buck. A 1 lb. can of Blue dot is around $5 cheaper than 1 lb. of Accurate #9. Also, I can get Blue Dot locally in a 5 lb. keg, for an even better price per pound.

I loaded and fired one round at a time, examining the brass for signs of dangerous pressure and ensuring the bore was clear after each shot. I noticed a good amount of unburned particles of Accurate #9 left in the chamber and bore. Perhaps a magnum large pistol primer is called for with Accurate #9.

Recoil was stiff with every one of the 220 gr. bullet recipes. That's a big bullet, and even if it's not going very fast, you'll know you just shot one.

I may also post photos of the 10mm brass. I didn't see any alarmingly flattened primers or other signs of dangerously high pressure. However, work remains before I will be comfortable trying any of these loads in my semiautomatic 10mm guns.
 
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That is great data. It looks like you have spent a lot of time working up data for the loads. How do you know the pressure is safe regardless of the velocities tested? I ask this not to criticize but for my own education. Sorry if this is off topic but it might have some relivance to your testing.
 
Good question.

I, like the vast majority of reloaders, have no way to directly measure pressure. I have to infer how high the pressure became through evidence such as the condition of brass after firing. The appearance of the primer is particularly informative. If it looks squashed flat, it's time to back off the charge.

So really, it's a matter of judgment, a bit of an art, and a lot of educated guessing. Comparison to brass from factory ammo can be helpful.
 
Brass pics

Finally got some pictures taken.

OK, below are pics of the brass.

They are in no particular order. I want your opinions on which brass shows signs of dangerously high pressure, if any, based on how much the primers are flattened. To prevent unconscious bias, I won't tell you which picture reflects which recipe. The numbers are for reference only, and do not correspond to the recipes above.

#1
4822256208_682dbdaa62.jpg
#2
4822256220_8c0644bf69.jpg
#3
4822256226_a42ecf84b7.jpg
#4
4822256232_8e5d5c0288.jpg
#5
4822256236_506d4c816b.jpg
#6
4822256244_1ff3045074.jpg
 
You are getting very healthy firing pin strikes, but no pierced primers or extrusions, and that's a good thing.
I only see one case in # 2 pic that appears to be flattened more than the rest, and is probably an anomaly.
Once you establish your load, it would be good to see a target report.



NCsmitty
 
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