10mm nuclear option
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pinkymingeo
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You can't beat AA9 in 10mm. Subtract about 80fps from the data at the Accurate Arms website, and that's what you'll get in a 5" barrel. Their published max loads are not as hot as you can go, but they'll do the job.
Lennyjoe
Member
You can beat AA#9 in 10MM loads.
Give 800X and CCI Mag primers a try under 180gr Hornady XTP's.
Do a search here and on www.glocktalk.com on 800X powder. I've worked up some pretty stout loads using 800X. I've also gone way above the printed max but won't post the loads here for everyone elses safety.
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=179347
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=135161&highlight=Lennyjoe
Give 800X and CCI Mag primers a try under 180gr Hornady XTP's.
Do a search here and on www.glocktalk.com on 800X powder. I've worked up some pretty stout loads using 800X. I've also gone way above the printed max but won't post the loads here for everyone elses safety.
http://www.glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=179347
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=135161&highlight=Lennyjoe
FieroCDSP
Member
Not that it's entirey comperable, but I've used 800x in a 135gr load for my 40cal. That sucker felt rougher than the 180 factory loads.
CAUTION: The following post includes loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
I would just pick some DoubleTap with 200gr or heavier hardcast lead...
or ...
If you want to reload:
IMR 800X(8.0gr starting load...up to 10 gr MAX)
CCI 350
Starline or Winchester brass(NEW)
200gr Hdy XTP
I shoot this load out of my 1006 up to 9.6gr...any higher than that and I get an occasional FTE.
9.6 gr of IMR 800X gets me around the 1230 fps mark and 675 ft lbs.
I would just pick some DoubleTap with 200gr or heavier hardcast lead...
or ...
If you want to reload:
IMR 800X(8.0gr starting load...up to 10 gr MAX)
CCI 350
Starline or Winchester brass(NEW)
200gr Hdy XTP
I shoot this load out of my 1006 up to 9.6gr...any higher than that and I get an occasional FTE.
9.6 gr of IMR 800X gets me around the 1230 fps mark and 675 ft lbs.
pinkymingeo
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- Joined
- May 31, 2007
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- 591
Apart from the wisdom (or lack thereof) of exceeding published data, I wonder about using excessive loads for defense purposes. Unless, of course, you hope that a KB will send all the shrapnel toward your target. Too good a chance of jamming the action with split/bulged/ruptured cases, FTFs in semiautos, and general screwups. If you need more than a 10mm will safely give you, buy a 41mag.
the pistolero
Member
Subtract, or add? With the minimum load of AA#9 behind a 155-grain XTP I was getting speeds of about 100 fps faster than what was listed on the Accurate data sheet -- ~1350 fps vs. the 1244 fps from the Accurate data. I don't know how much of that had to do with the fact that I was using a different primer and bullet than what was listed, but I was also getting higher velocities with the 180-grain Berrys that I was using the last time I took the Kimber out, ~1155 fps vs. the 1093 listed on the Accurate data sheet. In any case, for me AA#9 has proved to be a very good powder for at least moderate-power 10mm. I'll try 800X one of these days, though.
CZ57
member
How does 800-X beat #9? In terms of velocity only? A couple of things to consider. First, accuracy. You hardly ever see it mentioned by the Glock shooters that are setting out to make their 10mms Grizzly Bear defense guns. Consequently, and fortuneately, none of them have used it for that purpose or there would be threads on Glockshooters for lunch at Glock Forum! The AA#9 loads are pressure tested by Accurate and equal or slightly exceed the original spec of original NORMA 10mm factory loads. Anyone shooting something hotter, well, I'd like to watch: from a distance, naturally.
#9 meters about 100 times better than 800-X, which is the largest diameter extruded flake propellant commonly available. In other words, if you're approaching the NON-Pressure tested max loads with 800-X in 10mm, you are flirting with disaster if you do not trickle your powder charge. Otherwise, the poor extreme spreads and standard deviations are starting with your powder measure. Not a good thing when you push the envelope.
New handgunners, even newer reloaders, setting out to achieve performance beyond what the vast majority will ever be able to manage effectively. And, in pistols of questionable chamber support. One thing you might also want to consider. The Glock boys have effectively tilted the debate in their favor: the Glock vs. XD debate. Because of those 800-X loads being circulated, it is doubtful that we'll ever see an XD in 10mm. As far as Double-Tap. contact them and ask if they pressure test their 10mm ammo according to SAAMI specs.
#9 meters about 100 times better than 800-X, which is the largest diameter extruded flake propellant commonly available. In other words, if you're approaching the NON-Pressure tested max loads with 800-X in 10mm, you are flirting with disaster if you do not trickle your powder charge. Otherwise, the poor extreme spreads and standard deviations are starting with your powder measure. Not a good thing when you push the envelope.
New handgunners, even newer reloaders, setting out to achieve performance beyond what the vast majority will ever be able to manage effectively. And, in pistols of questionable chamber support. One thing you might also want to consider. The Glock boys have effectively tilted the debate in their favor: the Glock vs. XD debate. Because of those 800-X loads being circulated, it is doubtful that we'll ever see an XD in 10mm. As far as Double-Tap. contact them and ask if they pressure test their 10mm ammo according to SAAMI specs.
Please note, I do not want to exceed safe loading. But loads published are all over the place. Some bullet manufacturers publish loads with the same weight and powder, with very different charges.
I have noticed that some very old 10mm loads I have are quite a bit hotter than new stuff I recently purchased.
I already have a 41 magnum. I want a 10mm that's not a 40 S&W in a longer case.
Again, pistol is a S&W 1076. This is not a carry load, this is a potential anti-animal load. Please read the original post.
I have noticed that some very old 10mm loads I have are quite a bit hotter than new stuff I recently purchased.
I already have a 41 magnum. I want a 10mm that's not a 40 S&W in a longer case.
Again, pistol is a S&W 1076. This is not a carry load, this is a potential anti-animal load. Please read the original post.
Lennyjoe
Member
Nothing short of a 12 guage loaded with slugs will stop a pissed off bruin. But, if your wanting an autoloader for field carry you can't go wrong with a 10MM.
Depends on if he's chewing on one hand or both.
As for performance with the 800X, my loads were every bit as accurate as the AA#9 loads I developed. The 800X produced more fps/fpe than the AA#9 and didn't show signs of overpressure until I got over 10gr of 800X. Yes, 800X meters like crap and I don't bulk load 800X so therefore I measure each load when using that powder. If I want to bulk load 10MM I use Blue Dot.
As always, start at the lower end of the published data and work your way up to a safe level. If you don't want to push the envelope then stick to published data. I like to work up different loads in a safe manner. I know when to stop and back track. So far I have all my fingers/hands in tact and haven't blown anything up. Split a few brass, pushed out a couple primers but that's it.
Be safe all!
Depends on if he's chewing on one hand or both.
As for performance with the 800X, my loads were every bit as accurate as the AA#9 loads I developed. The 800X produced more fps/fpe than the AA#9 and didn't show signs of overpressure until I got over 10gr of 800X. Yes, 800X meters like crap and I don't bulk load 800X so therefore I measure each load when using that powder. If I want to bulk load 10MM I use Blue Dot.
As always, start at the lower end of the published data and work your way up to a safe level. If you don't want to push the envelope then stick to published data. I like to work up different loads in a safe manner. I know when to stop and back track. So far I have all my fingers/hands in tact and haven't blown anything up. Split a few brass, pushed out a couple primers but that's it.
Be safe all!
I don't trust pepper spray. I used it once and the wind shifted. Bear and me both blind and useless. No grizzlies to worry about in my area. Otherwise I'd be packing the 458. I know from personal experience that a 357 to the brain pan will stop a black bear.
I don't like to pack my S&W 57. It's a very early model with a nice blue finish. MY 1076 is stainless and accurate as all get out. And 9 rounds versus 6. I also find it much quicker to get out my pistol than pepper spray.
YMMV
I don't like to pack my S&W 57. It's a very early model with a nice blue finish. MY 1076 is stainless and accurate as all get out. And 9 rounds versus 6. I also find it much quicker to get out my pistol than pepper spray.
YMMV
Thanks Lennyjoe.
I wouldn't even trust a 12 gauge on a pissed bear that really wanted to tear me up and was good sized. Most that I've seen are in the 300-400 pound range.
Here I'm looking at a compromise. If bruins were my number one concern, I pack my 458 or one of my double rifles. I'm looking for something that is reasonable to pack but still adequate for the job if properly employed.
As noted, my oprevious carry was a 41 mag. But too nice to take into the woods. I suppose i could get a 460 or 500, but they are too darn big to want to take al them time. The 1076 is a nice balanve between power and carryability. It's not so cumbersome I won't carry it.
Since I often hunt with a 30-06 No. 1, I can't count on a fast secont shot. If I am hunting with my M1A, I don't bother with a pistol.
I wouldn't even trust a 12 gauge on a pissed bear that really wanted to tear me up and was good sized. Most that I've seen are in the 300-400 pound range.
Here I'm looking at a compromise. If bruins were my number one concern, I pack my 458 or one of my double rifles. I'm looking for something that is reasonable to pack but still adequate for the job if properly employed.
As noted, my oprevious carry was a 41 mag. But too nice to take into the woods. I suppose i could get a 460 or 500, but they are too darn big to want to take al them time. The 1076 is a nice balanve between power and carryability. It's not so cumbersome I won't carry it.
Since I often hunt with a 30-06 No. 1, I can't count on a fast secont shot. If I am hunting with my M1A, I don't bother with a pistol.
Although I trust this load, I will use this disclaimer.
CAUTION: The following post, MAY, include loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
I Don't have a Smith and Wesson 10mm, but I do have a Glock 20 with the Lonewolf 6inch hunting barrel. I also have a favorite pet load for it to share.
So here I go. This is Safe thru my firearm with about 425 rounds down range it is my favorite 10mm load and I think if I had to I could stop a bear with it.
.
I use the Remington nickel brass 10mm casings along with CCI 300 primers.
The powder load is exactly 9.6 grains of Bluedot.
The Slug is a 200 grain Redline Hard Cast Lead conical flat point.
Seated to the standard 1.250 cartridge length, they have given me a fairly consistent 1140 to 1148 FPS, from my 6inch barrel.
For the weight that is about the same as my 41 mag, and my groups are somewhere around 3.5 inches offhand slowfire at 30 yards.
I know that a bear coming at me will make my group open up , probably alot.
.
This load is listed in the Speer number twelve reloading manual as being a jacketed 200grain with a maximum of 10 grains of Bluedot.
While it is lead and not over the maximum, it is still hot.
My advice would be to try the hard cast bullets out there and work up to a manageable load for your pistol.
CAUTION: The following post, MAY, include loading data beyond currently published maximums for this cartridge. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK.
Neither the writer, The High Road, nor the staff of THR assume any liability for any damage or injury resulting from use of this information.
I Don't have a Smith and Wesson 10mm, but I do have a Glock 20 with the Lonewolf 6inch hunting barrel. I also have a favorite pet load for it to share.
So here I go. This is Safe thru my firearm with about 425 rounds down range it is my favorite 10mm load and I think if I had to I could stop a bear with it.
.
I use the Remington nickel brass 10mm casings along with CCI 300 primers.
The powder load is exactly 9.6 grains of Bluedot.
The Slug is a 200 grain Redline Hard Cast Lead conical flat point.
Seated to the standard 1.250 cartridge length, they have given me a fairly consistent 1140 to 1148 FPS, from my 6inch barrel.
For the weight that is about the same as my 41 mag, and my groups are somewhere around 3.5 inches offhand slowfire at 30 yards.
I know that a bear coming at me will make my group open up , probably alot.
.
This load is listed in the Speer number twelve reloading manual as being a jacketed 200grain with a maximum of 10 grains of Bluedot.
While it is lead and not over the maximum, it is still hot.
My advice would be to try the hard cast bullets out there and work up to a manageable load for your pistol.
ReloaderFred
Member
GunTech,
I too live in bear country. In fact, my wife had an encounter with one the day before yesterday about 100 yards from our house. She carries a handgun when she walks the dogs, but in this case, she used one of those airhorns that uses a small can of compressed air. The bear took off into the woods when she "tooted", as she put it. We've had a couple of encounters with bears that have lost their fear of humans. Those are a different animal all together. The one time all I had was a S&W Model 59. As the bear got more obnoxious, that 9mm got smaller in my hand....
I've seen bears killed with a 9mm. In fact, one of them was with the very Model 59 I was carrying that day, loaded with old Black Talon loads. The bear went about 100 yards before it died, but it did die.
I carry my 10mm Witness when I walk the woods behind our house these days. I figure 16 rounds of 10mm 200 grain bullets will at least change ol' brer bruin's mind for him.
My real concern anymore is the increase in the cougar population around here. Since the liberals voted in the ban on baiting and hounds, both the bear and cougar populations have exploded, and the deer population has dwindled. Gee, who would have thought??
Anyway, back on point. For bears in the 300 to 400 pound range, I would (and do) carry a solid 200 grain bullet. You'll want deep penetration. I wouldn't consider a hollowpoint bullet for bears, since it won't drive deep enough to get to vital organs. Anything in the 1,200 fps range is what you're looking for. As you're probably aware, you need to get through that thick hair and hide, and once you do, break bones and punch holes in the organs.
I have a feeling you're getting a lot of advice from people who don't live in bear country, but have heard "stories". I've lived in bear country for over 40 years. Most bears will run from you, but once in awhile you'll run across one that didn't read the bear book of etiquette, or had been fed by some rotten do gooder, who thinks they're doing the bears a favor by providing free meals for them.
I'll be the first to admit that the 10mm isn't the ultimate gun for bears, but we're not talking about hunting them on a regular basis, just protecting our behinds, "just in case". I sometimes carry my 6 1/2" Model 57, especially if the bears have been really active around the neighborhood, but the 10mm is the one I carry the most when out and about.
Hope this helps.
Fred
I too live in bear country. In fact, my wife had an encounter with one the day before yesterday about 100 yards from our house. She carries a handgun when she walks the dogs, but in this case, she used one of those airhorns that uses a small can of compressed air. The bear took off into the woods when she "tooted", as she put it. We've had a couple of encounters with bears that have lost their fear of humans. Those are a different animal all together. The one time all I had was a S&W Model 59. As the bear got more obnoxious, that 9mm got smaller in my hand....
I've seen bears killed with a 9mm. In fact, one of them was with the very Model 59 I was carrying that day, loaded with old Black Talon loads. The bear went about 100 yards before it died, but it did die.
I carry my 10mm Witness when I walk the woods behind our house these days. I figure 16 rounds of 10mm 200 grain bullets will at least change ol' brer bruin's mind for him.
My real concern anymore is the increase in the cougar population around here. Since the liberals voted in the ban on baiting and hounds, both the bear and cougar populations have exploded, and the deer population has dwindled. Gee, who would have thought??
Anyway, back on point. For bears in the 300 to 400 pound range, I would (and do) carry a solid 200 grain bullet. You'll want deep penetration. I wouldn't consider a hollowpoint bullet for bears, since it won't drive deep enough to get to vital organs. Anything in the 1,200 fps range is what you're looking for. As you're probably aware, you need to get through that thick hair and hide, and once you do, break bones and punch holes in the organs.
I have a feeling you're getting a lot of advice from people who don't live in bear country, but have heard "stories". I've lived in bear country for over 40 years. Most bears will run from you, but once in awhile you'll run across one that didn't read the bear book of etiquette, or had been fed by some rotten do gooder, who thinks they're doing the bears a favor by providing free meals for them.
I'll be the first to admit that the 10mm isn't the ultimate gun for bears, but we're not talking about hunting them on a regular basis, just protecting our behinds, "just in case". I sometimes carry my 6 1/2" Model 57, especially if the bears have been really active around the neighborhood, but the 10mm is the one I carry the most when out and about.
Hope this helps.
Fred
Fred, if you ever need help punching cougar tags, give me at least a months notice and I can make time. I have yet to see one this season and do have a currently unfilled tag.
As for bear, I too carry a 10mm Witness loaded with hardcast bullets. I currently have Double Tap 230 grainers in the stack while hiking and galvanting out in the woods.
jeeepmor
As for bear, I too carry a 10mm Witness loaded with hardcast bullets. I currently have Double Tap 230 grainers in the stack while hiking and galvanting out in the woods.
jeeepmor
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CZ57
member
Well then, Fred, you're aware that a 300-400 pound Black Bear is a very formidable animal, but a lightweight compared to the Griz. And lets also distinguish the difference between shooting any bear in a static condition and an adrenalized bear charging you. The .357 Magnum is considered light for tree stand hunting for black bear. Most guides recommend a minimum of .41 Magnum. The 10mm is not a .41 Magnum and if a Griz is charging, you are undergunned with any handgun, and then things are complicated by a shooter that's even more adrenalized than the charging bear. Now, if you want to use a nuclear 10mm load for tree stand hunting Black Bear, I'd say why not, with the right load. Blowing an air horn at a black from 100 yards is relevant in what way to any of this? I might have been just as inclined to drop my pants, turn my back to it and fart in it's general direction. I don't live in bear country, but I do live in wild hog country, and anyone around here that shot at a hog with a 9mm would get laughed at all the way to Oregon, provided the hog didn't make mincemeat out of him. I'd like my chances against a 300 lb. boar a little better than with a 400 lb. Black Bear!
Gun Tech, I didn't catch what part of Montana you're in, but I'm assuming you're close enough to the Rockies to be thinking about this. Talk to professional hunters in Montana that have seen GRIZ! You're most likely to get a good lever recommendation like the Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 or .450 Marlin. Nothing wrong with carrying a sidearm as a back-up, but for me, it would probably start with a DW in .460 Rowland that will fire the .45 Win. Mag. or consider the .454 Casull. It would not be the primary bear defense gun under any circumstances!
I've been looking at these loads for more than awhile, and most of the conception was born out of delusional thinking!
Gun Tech, I didn't catch what part of Montana you're in, but I'm assuming you're close enough to the Rockies to be thinking about this. Talk to professional hunters in Montana that have seen GRIZ! You're most likely to get a good lever recommendation like the Marlin Guide Gun in .45-70 or .450 Marlin. Nothing wrong with carrying a sidearm as a back-up, but for me, it would probably start with a DW in .460 Rowland that will fire the .45 Win. Mag. or consider the .454 Casull. It would not be the primary bear defense gun under any circumstances!
I've been looking at these loads for more than awhile, and most of the conception was born out of delusional thinking!
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ReloaderFred
Member
GunTeck made it clear that we're talking about black bears here, not grizzlies. The bear my wife encountered was 100 yards from our house while she was walking one of the dogs. She was actually about 20 yards from the bear when she used her airhorn, and the bear ran off into the brush alongside the road. She used the airhorn several times, but she also had her handgun and would have used it, if necessary. It wasn't. There is no correlation between boars and bears. I've hunted both, and they're different in nature. And I'm sure that if you had ever seen a black bear cover 100 yards, you wouldn't be dropping your drawers at it..........
We're also not talking about actually hunting bears with a handgun. The discussion is about running into a bear while in the woods, and what would be capable of stopping the bear, if it didn't back off, like most of them do. It's rare for a black bear to be aggressive, unless it's been desensitized to humans, or a sow with cubs. They're actually pretty predictable, in most cases, but the question concerned one that didn't read the book, not one that was being stalked and hunted. In this part of the country, stands are very rare. Hunting is done by spot and stalk, in very thick woods. In Montana the woods are more open for the most part, and a person should have more warning that a bear was present, especially the area around Helena.
Jeepmor,
A cougar crossed the road in front of my wife's car two weeks ago about 1/4 mile from home. One took a fawn in a neighbor's yard last month. He tried to scare it off by banging on his deck with a board, but it got the fawn anyway. It was probably the same cat, since they're so territorial and within a short distance of where my wife saw it.
Fred
We're also not talking about actually hunting bears with a handgun. The discussion is about running into a bear while in the woods, and what would be capable of stopping the bear, if it didn't back off, like most of them do. It's rare for a black bear to be aggressive, unless it's been desensitized to humans, or a sow with cubs. They're actually pretty predictable, in most cases, but the question concerned one that didn't read the book, not one that was being stalked and hunted. In this part of the country, stands are very rare. Hunting is done by spot and stalk, in very thick woods. In Montana the woods are more open for the most part, and a person should have more warning that a bear was present, especially the area around Helena.
Jeepmor,
A cougar crossed the road in front of my wife's car two weeks ago about 1/4 mile from home. One took a fawn in a neighbor's yard last month. He tried to scare it off by banging on his deck with a board, but it got the fawn anyway. It was probably the same cat, since they're so territorial and within a short distance of where my wife saw it.
Fred
CZ57
member
Yeah, he did mention that and weight, but after looking at his location I see it's Helena, and that's in the Rockies. While I'm sure there are plenty of Blacks, there are also plenty of Browns. Again, consult a professional in your own area!
The point is, these overpressure and unpublished 10mm 800-X loads were born at GlockForum and the origin was a delusional discussion of protecting oneself against bear attack, not bear encounter. The debate includes both species in most cases.
The point is, these overpressure and unpublished 10mm 800-X loads were born at GlockForum and the origin was a delusional discussion of protecting oneself against bear attack, not bear encounter. The debate includes both species in most cases.
Never seen a grizzly anwhere around here. They may be here, but probably in the way back, and not where humans tend to go. No reported sightings in a long while. Blackies on the other hands are not uncommon. I have seen them at least a dozen times this year.
As noted, what I'm looking for is a compormise gun. I don't want t pack around a huge 460 or 500. If it's too heavy, I'll be tempted to leave it at home. The 1076 is light enough that I don't mind carrying it. In fact, it's my typical carry gun. Just looking for suggestions on a heavy load for bear, realizing that this is not the ideal caliber, but probably better than anything else in its weight class. I don't want an unsafe load. I want something that is at the high end and will push a solid deep.
The point about cougars is also well taken. I've seen more than a few, closer and closer to town.
As noted, what I'm looking for is a compormise gun. I don't want t pack around a huge 460 or 500. If it's too heavy, I'll be tempted to leave it at home. The 1076 is light enough that I don't mind carrying it. In fact, it's my typical carry gun. Just looking for suggestions on a heavy load for bear, realizing that this is not the ideal caliber, but probably better than anything else in its weight class. I don't want an unsafe load. I want something that is at the high end and will push a solid deep.
The point about cougars is also well taken. I've seen more than a few, closer and closer to town.
CZ57
member
Gun Tech, I don't own any safe queens. I don't fault anyone who does, it's just not my personal practice. In other words, break out that 57! Just kidding. The problem with sightings is as Fred pointed out: Black Bear are much more desensitized to human contact. You are not as likely to encounter a Griz, but much more likely to be in peril if you do. They are much more evasive. So I couldn't recommend carrying the 57, even though Griz sightings are not common. Just the same, from Northern Colorado to Canada, I can't think of any area (in the Rockies) that doesn't have an occasional Griz. I believe the Smith 10XX pistols are outstanding and in the imaginary world of speed shooting any bear, a much better option than a Glock. But, I'd still carry something bigger. The 1076 you have, and I understand that, but, if there is the likelyhood that you could be face to face with an aggressive bear, open the wallet!
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wally
Member
Hot but safe and 100% effective on paper and steel plates I use random (Zero, Star, Remmington) 180gr FMJ-TC and 10.9gr Blue Dot with Winchester primers. Mixing these in the magazine with Double Tap 180gr Gold Dot I find it hard to tell which is which.
If you don't want to be so close to max, I still find 9.9gr Blue Dot makes folks look over to see what you are shooting, especially from my Witness Compact
I only use two handgun powders, Blue Dot for the magnums, and Unique for everything else (10mm is close enough to .41 mag to count as one).
--wally.
I use random (Zero, Star, Remmington) 180gr FMJ-TC and 10.9gr Blue Dot with Winchester primers. Mixing these in the magazine with Double Tap 180gr Gold Dot I find it hard to tell which is which.If you don't want to be so close to max, I still find 9.9gr Blue Dot makes folks look over to see what you are shooting, especially from my Witness Compact
I only use two handgun powders, Blue Dot for the magnums, and Unique for everything else (10mm is close enough to .41 mag to count as one).
--wally.
CZ57
member
Wally, I agree with you on Blue Dot, but not the last part of your thread. Handloads from when I started reloading, and it was with the .41 Magnum, were SAAMI max, 43,500 CUP and the loads were safe. Energy levels are above 1000 FT/Lbs and the 10mm doesn't come close to that. In fact, .357 Magnum loads of older days will produce higher energy than a 10mm.
It's not a wallet problem, it a size problem. It's just too easy to not carry the hand cannon. The rule of thumb is that the only time you'll need a gun is when you aren't carrying it. I know I will carry the 10mm day in and day out in the woods without a second thought, because I carry it regularly in town.
I looked at a 5 inch 460 X frame today, as i have several times. But it is too darn big. Not to mention I hate the lock. If I knew I was going to encounter an angry bear, I'd take the double rifle - or better yet, stay home.
I can't think of anyone I know who regularly carries a 454, 460 or 500. Maybe when they are hunting, and not usually as a backup. How many of you carry a 45-70 guide gun when fishing? Or a 12 gauge with slugs?
Better the less than ideal gun you have with you that the perfect one you keep in the safe.
I looked at a 5 inch 460 X frame today, as i have several times. But it is too darn big. Not to mention I hate the lock. If I knew I was going to encounter an angry bear, I'd take the double rifle - or better yet, stay home.
I can't think of anyone I know who regularly carries a 454, 460 or 500. Maybe when they are hunting, and not usually as a backup. How many of you carry a 45-70 guide gun when fishing? Or a 12 gauge with slugs?
Better the less than ideal gun you have with you that the perfect one you keep in the safe.
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