10mm Suppressed ?

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Soonerpesek

Soonerpesek

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Good Afternoon all,

I have somewhat of a two part question for you.

First off, I do not own/ have access to a chrono at this time.

I am looking for some guidance on a suppressed load for my CMMG Banshee Mk10.
8" barrel, SilencerCo Octane 45.

Current loading is:
180 gr SNS coated TCFP
12.3 gr AA#9 ( out of Western Powder guide )
CCI 300 lg primer
Starline and FC brass
1.260" coal

I can still hear the sonic "crack" when these are fired, so obviously they are not Subsonic at that charge weight --- the 12.3 gr charge is a guesstimate from the load data to be 1075 fps --- I see that is incorrect now...:cool:

Also, firing these loads from the Banshee, it is INCREDABLY dirty, but firing them from my GP100 and a RIA 1911 they burn relatively clean. I realize the suppressor will cause some of that, but it seems excessive to me.

I have tried charges of 11.0 - 12.0 gr of AA#9 -- still dirty
13.8 gr of AA#9 -- seems excessively hot, although primers were JUST starting to show slight flattening.

I may be chasing the impossible ,but, is there a middle ground that would be subsonic and relatively cleaner than my current attempts...?

So is there any guidance from those with experience with this particular firearm, and insight from you more "seasoned" handloaders...?

Thanks in advance...:)
 
41 Mag said:
Need to change to a bit faster powder like AA-5 OR 7, or similar in burn rate.
Click to expand...

Lennyjoe said:
Might be more beneficial going to a 200 gr bullet as well to slow things down a bit to stay under 1100 fps
Click to expand...

Swampman said:
I agree with 41 Mag & Lennyjoe that a faster powder with a heavier bullet is likely to help.
Click to expand...

Advice well noted.
Another issue with that is the 4000 180 grainers and the 10 lbs of AA#9 that I have.
I bought both before getting the Banshee, that combo worked well in the other guns.
Right now it's a matter of using what I have.
I do like the 200 gr idea, tho....

Swampman said:
I don't know if it's possible to tune a radial delayed blowback for lighter loads, but what you're looking for is basically .40 S&W 200 grain ballistics.
Click to expand...

AJC1 said:
You need energy in the bolt system to cycle
Click to expand...


I have messed with changing the buffer, that has helped with cycling while suppressed.


I like all that advice so far, I'm just trying to make what I have work a little better...
 
Soonerpesek said:
Another question to those in the know......

Is Blue Dot any cleaner burning than AA#9 for this cartridge in a subsonic load...?
Click to expand...
2400 has less chunks at lower pressure than #9 and 4227. Still trying to get my dirty mitts on some blue dot. Ever considered trying a Vv powder like h110. I'm kinda amazed at how close 300bo and 357 are.
 
AJC1 said:
2400 has less chunks at lower pressure than #9 and 4227. Still trying to get my dirty mitts on some blue dot. Ever considered trying a Vv powder like h110. I'm kinda amazed at how close 300bo and 357 are.
Click to expand...

Hmmmm.........Interesting......

It's my limited understanding that you wouldn't want to download H110 tho.....wouldn't I have to do that to be subsonic,,,?

Gonna work on gettin' em under 1100 fps first, then work on the cleanliness....

Gosh darn thing is just toooooooo much fun....:cool:
 
@41 Mag
@Lennyjoe
@Swampman
@AJC1

...and anyone else that would chime in...

I saw on a recent thread where a fella was looking for data for a 2" barrel, mighta been for .357.........Anyhoo....

I can't find the quote, but someone had said that for every 1" of barrel to add 50 fps.
I also read somewhere on this forum to add 50 fps to coated bullets vs jacketed bullets with the same charge.

With that being taken into account, and the data I am using ( Hornady manual) is stated for 6' barrel with jacketed bullets, ( I used that manual because it shows individual charge weights, as opposed to a start and max )
In your experienced opinions should I add 150 fps to data I am using for the coated bullets...?...( Banshee is an 8”barrel ).

Again, no chrono and trying to be subsonic, but close to 1050 fps...

I UNDERSTAND THAT ANY INFO GIVEN HERE IS TO BE USED AT MY OWN RISK / REWARD......
 
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@AJC1

In post #10....Is Vv mean Vithavhouri...?
and were you suggesting to use a Vv powder similar in burn rate to H110,
or were you suggesting to use H110....?
 
Soonerpesek said:
@AJC1

In post #10....Is Vv mean Vithavhouri...?
and were you suggesting to use a Vv powder similar in burn rate to H110,
or were you suggesting to use H110....?
Click to expand...
Yes Vhit. N110 is their version which can be downloaded. Their powder is more expensive but I can got to the store and get them. Availability is worth something.
 
I would just say one thing........testing and building sub loads without a chrony is going to waste a lot of your time and money. You'll easy spend as much on primers/powder/lead, and time just getting close as you would on the Chrony. Useable Chrony's can be had for under a hundred bucks these days. I'll also say that, while somebody's suggested loads may be a good start point, unless they are at the same elevation/climate/temp as you, you still need to work it up.

That said, for pistol rounds, TG and Clean Shot work really good, especially for reduced suppressor blow back, and cleanliness. I have no idea where to start for 10MM. The added benefit of these powders, is they work well in small charges in big cases. I would stay away from attempting subs in any pistol caliber with W296, H110, AA9...any of the slower magnum type powders, as they just don't do well in low charges in big cases, and you can get into trouble pretty quick trying to download them. I've used AA5 in 45 ACP, and 9mm for suppressed rounds, and that was a failed experiment. I simply cannot tolerate AA5 in any blow back suppressed AR style PCC, debris shoot out the gap above the charging handle where it's injected straight into your eye. The slower you move up in the burn rate scales......the more this becomes a problem, but for some reason, AA5 seems to be the absolute worst.
 
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I’d say it might be a bit of a challenge building a subsonic 10MM load with out an adjustable gas block but since the banshee is a blowback system you may struggle with feed and function with a reduced powder load to keep it subsonic. My experience is with a SBR .300 BO with a suppressor so I’ll be monitoring this thread closely as I’m Interested in a 10MM suppressed SBR for my next build.
 
Lennyjoe said:
I’d say it might be a bit of a challenge building a subsonic 10MM load with out an adjustable gas block but since the banshee is a blowback system you may struggle with feed and function with a reduced powder load to keep it subsonic. My experience is with a SBR .300 BO with a suppressor so I’ll be monitoring this thread closely as I’m Interested in a 10MM suppressed SBR for my next build.
Click to expand...

And that's exactly it right there, and not necessarily a 10mm specific problem. It's also one of the reasons I emphasize the need for a chrony while playing in this court. Walking that fine line between sub and function both with and without the can in platforms and calibers that were originally designed around supersonic velocities and the associated pressures can be quite the challenge. The common logic is to find the biggest hunk of lead you can shove in that brass that your gun will feed with the smallest powder type appropriate charge for the caliber...and work from there. It's like the opposite of what everyone was trying to do in the 70s and 80s, with max loads, pushing heavy bullets faster and faster...like Keith and the 44 Mag...now we're trying to push those big for caliber bullets as slow as possible, and still have them function in gas guns.
 
load data.jpg

We'll see how this goes.......
Counting on the 8" barrel length to add a few fps to the book data ( 5" barrel ).
6" steel @ 75 yds...not looking for tiny group accuracy by no means, just quiet and accurate enough with a green dot optic...:thumbup:
 
Lennyjoe said:
I’d say it might be a bit of a challenge building a subsonic 10MM load with out an adjustable gas block but since the banshee is a blowback system you may struggle with feed and function with a reduced powder load to keep it subsonic.
Click to expand...


Out to the range today ( with a brand new chrono ) to try new ladder.....

SNS coated 180 gr TCFP @ .401" 1.250" COL

11.5 gr AA9.....avg - 1197 fps
11.0 gr AA9.....avg - 1142 fps
10.5 gr AA9.....avg - 1087 fps

All 5 shot strings, 4 of each loading, then averaged the average ( if you follow that ).

The 10.5 gr load is getting close, but surprisingly under min book data as far as I can tell.
Would I be correct in my thinking that the longer barrel and the HiTek coating is adding some fps.....?
I think I will try to go even lower, maybe in the 10.0 gr range to see.

As far as cycling, there has been NO issues with any of the tested charge weights, I DID change to an 8 oz. buffer tho.
It's befuddling me a bit in the fact that the lower charge I use......the cleaner it seems to be getting. Although the change in buffer weight may be helping that issue also...

Like I stated earlier.... I have ALOT of 180 grainers and AA9, so I'm trying to make what I have work better.
I do think I will try some 200 and 220 gr bullets at some future time, tho....:)

ETA.....I have to admit - I was a little nervous about shooting the chronograph...
 
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Update today's day at the range...

Fired out of a CMMG Banshee Mk10 pistol, 8" barrel, SiCo Octane 45 suppressor

SNS coated 180 gr TCFP @ .401" 1.250" COL Accurate #9
10.5 gr AA9.....avg - 1082 fps --- still hear the crack
10.0 gr AA9.....avg - 1032 fps --- better, not as dirty
9.5 gr AA9.....avg - 987 fps --- better, not as dirty

SNS coated 220 gr TCFP @ .401" 1.250" COL Alliant Sport Pistol
4.7 gr ASP..... avg - 938 fps --- quieter yet, cleaner
4.5 gr ASP..... avg - 920 fps --- I think I found the one...!...REAL quiet and clean
4.3 gr ASP..... avg - 889 fps --- book minimum, pretty good

First off, I want to tip my hat to all of you that recommended me to get a chrono for testing, and not just poke n hope. Thank you...!

I realize that the full throttle 10mm peeps will laugh at these results, but the purpose for these is to find a load that I can shoot WITHOUT earpro confidently.
My goal is to find loads that can be shot this way in all of the firearms I have with threaded ends. ( A 1894 Marlin CST in .38spl/.357mag is CRAZY quiet with a mousefart .38 load I found...! )
Currently I have 2 cans shared by 5 firearms, with 4 more that have been in jail for 9 months...

Anyways...
I think I will use the 180gr and AA9 for full house loads in a GP100 and a RIA 1911.
I believe the 220gr and ASP is the ticket for the suppressed loads....There were also many here that suggested a heavier bullet and faster powder....Thank you very much, also...!

I do find it interesting that, given a load is subsonic, it seems the faster powder has a quieter report than the slower powder...
I realize the highest ASP load is 50 fps slower than the lowest AA9 load --- but it was SIGNIFICANTLY more quiet...!

I appreciate all the knowledge on this forum, as I'll keep trying to learn more and more from all of you....:)
 
Lennyjoe said:
The 220 TCFP will be a good subsonic thumper. Do you have room to go up a bit more to get it in the low 1000 fps?
Click to expand...

The Alliant data for ASP lists 4.7gr to be max load for that bullet, I suppose I could creep up on it, but I think I found a good one @ 4.5 gr... I was also surprised that the spread was only 9fps...
I may try to go higher just for information...but to get to 1000fps it would be well over max....?
 
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