I'm sure glad all the dangerous and ornery things kids did with and to each other when I was growing up didn't lead to criminal charges and law suits. Now, it's not right for several boys to go picking on a girl -- no wonder she threw a rock. The police should give the parents a talking to and let that be the end of it. Of course, that assumes the parents are capable of being parents. What a society of weenies we've become.
11-year-old Fresno girl who threw rock to be tried for felony
- Thread starter Drizzt
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JohnBT
Member
"I am surprised an 11 year old..."
You haven't met my neighbor's granddaughter - 5'3'' or 4" and 150+. She can run, jump and throw. Wait a minute, she's only 10.
John
You haven't met my neighbor's granddaughter - 5'3'' or 4" and 150+. She can run, jump and throw. Wait a minute, she's only 10.
John
Beren
Moderator Emeritus
The only crime here is that she didn't bloody the faces of ALL those little punks assaulting her.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...ive/2005/08/02/BAG2EE1BNU1.DTL&type=printable
Text:
Fresno -- Until the afternoon of April 29, 11-year-old Maribel Cuevas' only connection with law enforcement was involvement in a mentoring program sponsored by the Police Activities League.
But that day a rock she says slipped from her hand struck Elijah Vang, 8, in the forehead. A 911 call led to Maribel being arrested by Fresno police officers, handcuffed and taken to Juvenile Hall, where she stayed for five days before a judge released her on the condition she wear an electronic ankle bracelet.
On Wednesday, Maribel is scheduled to go on trial in Juvenile Court on felony assault charges. Authorities say the rock-throwing incident was too serious to be treated lightly.
But critics of the Police Department's actions, including Maribel's father, say the treatment would have been different if Mirabel wasn't a Latina living in one of the city's poorer neighborhoods.
"If this was a middle-class or upper-class neighborhood it would have been a very different outcome," said the Rev. Floyd Harris Jr., who led a 100- person vigil Friday in front of Juvenile Hall to support Maribel.
"Police don't have the same respect for people of color in this town," Harris said.
Fresno's mayor, Alan Autry, commended the department in a statement. "In Fresno, we love our children too much to treat this like it was just a childhood dispute when in fact the consequences could have been tragic."
Maribel says she was defending herself against Elijah and other boys who had thrown rocks and water balloons at her and some of her younger siblings while they were playing behind the low chain-link fence of a relative's front yard in their largely minority neighborhood.
"She's a good girl. She's never been in trouble,'' said Martin Cuevas, father of the girl. "We are worrying what is going to happen,'' the father of six said in Spanish in a telephone interview in which he said he was surrounded by his children, ages 12, 11, 9, 6, 4 and 1.
"A criminal they don't treat like this," he said. "(Maribel) will never have trust in the police after what they did to her."
Police defended their actions, saying Maribel intended to hurt the boy and resisted arrest, kicking toward the officers and scratching one on the arm.
"As far as the criminal investigation and how it was resolved, the matter was handled in an appropriate way," said Sgt. Anthony Martinez, a Police Department spokesman. However, because of complaints, the department has opened an investigation of the handling of the case, Martinez said.
If convicted, Maribel would probably not be incarcerated, but criminal justice experts questioned the severity of the charges.
"Usually stories like this make headlines because there is something intuitively outrageous," said Michael Vitiello, a criminal law professor at McGeorge School of Law in Sacramento. "This is very uncommon given the ages of the children involved and all the other ways it could have been handled."
Maribel's case has attracted international attention, seemingly getting notice everywhere but in Fresno, even though the local paper has run several stories and letters to the editor.
"I was a little surprised it was more of a national and international issue," said Ken Shockley, a city spokesman. "We haven't gotten a lot of local anger or feedback. The negative e-mails have been out of state and out of the country."
Organizers of Friday's vigil say Maribel's treatment proves the need for an independent police auditor, an idea the mayor favors but the City Council has rejected. A meeting is scheduled for Aug. 27 to create a community "cop watch" program to monitor police actions.
Maribel's father said his daughter has suffered both mentally and physically from her incarceration and the intense pressure regarding her court date.
She has required doctor's visits and medicine, her father said, and a trip to a psychologist last week. "It's affected all of us a lot.''
A field-worker who earns $250 a week, Martin Cuevas says his daughter's situation has prevented him from working. "I have to go to her appointments, the lawyer, the doctor," he said.
Maribel's lawyer, Richard Beshwate, blames part of her treatment on inaccuracies in the initial police report of the incident. The report is weighed by judges, probation officers and the district attorney in deciding a case's disposition.
The police report listed Maribel's age as 13 and said she threw a 5-pound rock at Elijah, whose age was misstated as 6. He is 8. The rock caused a 4- inch gash, the report said.
A report from the hospital where Elijah was taken said the cut was 1 1/2 inches. It required several stitches. After earlier press reports, the police said the rock was actually 2 1/2 pounds. Maribel says the rock that left her hand was much smaller.
The Vangs have since moved and were unavailable for comment. Maribel's lawyer said the father of the boy, although unhappy about his son's injury, expressed regret that charges were filed against the girl.
"They misassessed what they had and didn't spend any time to investigate, " Beshwate said. "They arrested her and handcuffed her and asked questions later."
Police reports and interviews with witnesses describe the incident this way:
Maribel told her lawyer's investigator she and her 6-year-old brother were playing the front yard of a house with another boy, also 6, and his sisters, ages 4 and 3.
Elijah, his cousin and five other boys stopped in front of the house, harassing them.
Elijah threw three water balloons at her, two of which hit her in the face, Maribel said. They also threw nine or 10 rocks. Two of the rocks hit her, Maribel said, one in the shoulder, one on the side.
She picked up one of the rocks that had been tossed at her and tried to pretend to throw it, she said, but it slipped out of her hand and hit Elijah in the forehead.
Maribel's brother gave Elijah a towel to hold over his bleeding cut. She said she went to Elijah's house to tell his parents he was hurt, but they weren't there.
When she returned, Maribel's mother was there, as were police officers.
"I placed her into handcuffs and she began struggling with us," the police report says. "She threw herself to the ground and started kicking at" one of the officers, the report continues. "We were able to get Cuevas into the back of the patrol vehicle and she began kicking the door and continued crying."
Cuevas was taken to Juvenile Hall. A witness said the officers told her Maribel would be back in several hours. Instead, she stayed there five days before a hearing.
"It was filled with cholas (gang girls)," said Martin Cuevas. "My girl isn't anything like that. It was traumatic."
Told she would be returned to Juvenile Hall if the bracelet did not show she was home by 3 p.m., Maribel refused to return to school.
After being allowed by her school to leave 30 minutes early to ensure she arrived home in time, Maribel returned to classes.
At a hearing the following month, a judge allowed her to stop wearing the bracelet.
Martin Cuevas said there is one bright spot -- reaction and support from around the country.
"There has been a lot of anger about what they've done to us," he said. "We've seen letters on the Internet from Miami, Florida, all over ... people are very helpful because this is about children and the way they're treated."
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/artic...ive/2005/08/02/BAG2EE1BNU1.DTL&type=printable
Text:
Fresno -- Until the afternoon of April 29, 11-year-old Maribel Cuevas' only connection with law enforcement was involvement in a mentoring program sponsored by the Police Activities League.
But that day a rock she says slipped from her hand struck Elijah Vang, 8, in the forehead. A 911 call led to Maribel being arrested by Fresno police officers, handcuffed and taken to Juvenile Hall, where she stayed for five days before a judge released her on the condition she wear an electronic ankle bracelet.
On Wednesday, Maribel is scheduled to go on trial in Juvenile Court on felony assault charges. Authorities say the rock-throwing incident was too serious to be treated lightly.
But critics of the Police Department's actions, including Maribel's father, say the treatment would have been different if Mirabel wasn't a Latina living in one of the city's poorer neighborhoods.
"If this was a middle-class or upper-class neighborhood it would have been a very different outcome," said the Rev. Floyd Harris Jr., who led a 100- person vigil Friday in front of Juvenile Hall to support Maribel.
"Police don't have the same respect for people of color in this town," Harris said.
Fresno's mayor, Alan Autry, commended the department in a statement. "In Fresno, we love our children too much to treat this like it was just a childhood dispute when in fact the consequences could have been tragic."
Maribel says she was defending herself against Elijah and other boys who had thrown rocks and water balloons at her and some of her younger siblings while they were playing behind the low chain-link fence of a relative's front yard in their largely minority neighborhood.
"She's a good girl. She's never been in trouble,'' said Martin Cuevas, father of the girl. "We are worrying what is going to happen,'' the father of six said in Spanish in a telephone interview in which he said he was surrounded by his children, ages 12, 11, 9, 6, 4 and 1.
"A criminal they don't treat like this," he said. "(Maribel) will never have trust in the police after what they did to her."
Police defended their actions, saying Maribel intended to hurt the boy and resisted arrest, kicking toward the officers and scratching one on the arm.
"As far as the criminal investigation and how it was resolved, the matter was handled in an appropriate way," said Sgt. Anthony Martinez, a Police Department spokesman. However, because of complaints, the department has opened an investigation of the handling of the case, Martinez said.
If convicted, Maribel would probably not be incarcerated, but criminal justice experts questioned the severity of the charges.
"Usually stories like this make headlines because there is something intuitively outrageous," said Michael Vitiello, a criminal law professor at McGeorge School of Law in Sacramento. "This is very uncommon given the ages of the children involved and all the other ways it could have been handled."
Maribel's case has attracted international attention, seemingly getting notice everywhere but in Fresno, even though the local paper has run several stories and letters to the editor.
"I was a little surprised it was more of a national and international issue," said Ken Shockley, a city spokesman. "We haven't gotten a lot of local anger or feedback. The negative e-mails have been out of state and out of the country."
Organizers of Friday's vigil say Maribel's treatment proves the need for an independent police auditor, an idea the mayor favors but the City Council has rejected. A meeting is scheduled for Aug. 27 to create a community "cop watch" program to monitor police actions.
Maribel's father said his daughter has suffered both mentally and physically from her incarceration and the intense pressure regarding her court date.
She has required doctor's visits and medicine, her father said, and a trip to a psychologist last week. "It's affected all of us a lot.''
A field-worker who earns $250 a week, Martin Cuevas says his daughter's situation has prevented him from working. "I have to go to her appointments, the lawyer, the doctor," he said.
Maribel's lawyer, Richard Beshwate, blames part of her treatment on inaccuracies in the initial police report of the incident. The report is weighed by judges, probation officers and the district attorney in deciding a case's disposition.
The police report listed Maribel's age as 13 and said she threw a 5-pound rock at Elijah, whose age was misstated as 6. He is 8. The rock caused a 4- inch gash, the report said.
A report from the hospital where Elijah was taken said the cut was 1 1/2 inches. It required several stitches. After earlier press reports, the police said the rock was actually 2 1/2 pounds. Maribel says the rock that left her hand was much smaller.
The Vangs have since moved and were unavailable for comment. Maribel's lawyer said the father of the boy, although unhappy about his son's injury, expressed regret that charges were filed against the girl.
"They misassessed what they had and didn't spend any time to investigate, " Beshwate said. "They arrested her and handcuffed her and asked questions later."
Police reports and interviews with witnesses describe the incident this way:
Maribel told her lawyer's investigator she and her 6-year-old brother were playing the front yard of a house with another boy, also 6, and his sisters, ages 4 and 3.
Elijah, his cousin and five other boys stopped in front of the house, harassing them.
Elijah threw three water balloons at her, two of which hit her in the face, Maribel said. They also threw nine or 10 rocks. Two of the rocks hit her, Maribel said, one in the shoulder, one on the side.
She picked up one of the rocks that had been tossed at her and tried to pretend to throw it, she said, but it slipped out of her hand and hit Elijah in the forehead.
Maribel's brother gave Elijah a towel to hold over his bleeding cut. She said she went to Elijah's house to tell his parents he was hurt, but they weren't there.
When she returned, Maribel's mother was there, as were police officers.
"I placed her into handcuffs and she began struggling with us," the police report says. "She threw herself to the ground and started kicking at" one of the officers, the report continues. "We were able to get Cuevas into the back of the patrol vehicle and she began kicking the door and continued crying."
Cuevas was taken to Juvenile Hall. A witness said the officers told her Maribel would be back in several hours. Instead, she stayed there five days before a hearing.
"It was filled with cholas (gang girls)," said Martin Cuevas. "My girl isn't anything like that. It was traumatic."
Told she would be returned to Juvenile Hall if the bracelet did not show she was home by 3 p.m., Maribel refused to return to school.
After being allowed by her school to leave 30 minutes early to ensure she arrived home in time, Maribel returned to classes.
At a hearing the following month, a judge allowed her to stop wearing the bracelet.
Martin Cuevas said there is one bright spot -- reaction and support from around the country.
"There has been a lot of anger about what they've done to us," he said. "We've seen letters on the Internet from Miami, Florida, all over ... people are very helpful because this is about children and the way they're treated."
Calif. Girl, 11, Avoids Felony Trial Looks like it's sorta over. DA probably wanted this to go away and the defense would not plead her to a felony.
Aren't they teaching proportional response theory in grade school these days? If anybody over reacted it was LE. Kids being kids -- neighborhood thugs threw stuff at her and she threw stuff back, at 11 yo that's a proportional response.
Like they couldn't have done that the day of the incident. Since the boy started it, who's the real victim?
Aren't they teaching proportional response theory in grade school these days?
If anybody over reacted it was LE. Kids being kids -- neighborhood thugs threw stuff at her and she threw stuff back, at 11 yo that's a proportional response.Fletchette
Member
Why is this girl's name being printed? I thought that was against the law...
MICHAEL T
Member
Don't take water balloons to a rock fight.
Pilgrim
Member
Crimes like this are against the People of the State of California. It does not matter if the victim is willing to press the issue.
Once upon a time domestic violence was ignored by the district attorney if the victim did not want to "press charges" against the offending spouse. As a result, California law made it clear the district attorney could prosecute the offender even if the victim did not want to cooperate with the prosecution. You can probably assume the prosecution of eleven year old Maribel is an outgrowth of this philosophy.
Pilgrim
Pilgrim
Member
Normally this is true. But if the child's parents go to the press and release the kid's name, there is no prohibition against publishing the kid's name. If you noticed, there are websites naming the girl. The government sure as heck didn't create those websites.
Pilgrim
Sounds like...
a case of equal force with the revelation of this information: "Elijah, his cousin and five other boys stopped in front of the house, harassing them.
Elijah threw three water balloons at her, two of which hit her in the face, Maribel said. They also threw nine or 10 rocks. Two of the rocks hit her, Maribel said, one in the shoulder, one on the side.
She picked up one of the rocks that had been tossed at her and tried to pretend to throw it, she said, but it slipped out of her hand and hit Elijah in the forehead."
Seven little thugs throwing not only water ballons but rocks also. Now we can begin to understand why the boy's parents don't want to press charges. Outnumbered, hit twice in the face with water ballons, twice with rocks, being taunted with who knows what types of slurs or even threats of more violence being brought to bear on her. Sounds like justifiable defensive actions to me.
Who does she get to see about getting the 5 days of her life back?
migoi
a case of equal force with the revelation of this information: "Elijah, his cousin and five other boys stopped in front of the house, harassing them.
Elijah threw three water balloons at her, two of which hit her in the face, Maribel said. They also threw nine or 10 rocks. Two of the rocks hit her, Maribel said, one in the shoulder, one on the side.
She picked up one of the rocks that had been tossed at her and tried to pretend to throw it, she said, but it slipped out of her hand and hit Elijah in the forehead."
Seven little thugs throwing not only water ballons but rocks also. Now we can begin to understand why the boy's parents don't want to press charges. Outnumbered, hit twice in the face with water ballons, twice with rocks, being taunted with who knows what types of slurs or even threats of more violence being brought to bear on her. Sounds like justifiable defensive actions to me.
Who does she get to see about getting the 5 days of her life back?
migoi
HonorsDaddy
Member
One good thing which will likely come of this...
...is in about 7 years, this young lady will be an adult, with a very healthy distrust of government.
The more silly crap like this happens, the more people will realize the idiocy of the modern "justice" system.
...is in about 7 years, this young lady will be an adult, with a very healthy distrust of government.
The more silly crap like this happens, the more people will realize the idiocy of the modern "justice" system.
Aguila Blanca
Member
I think the reporter misquoted the mayor. Seems like what he was really saying was "In Fresno, we love our children too much to treat this like it was just a childhood dispute when in fact it was just a childhood dispute."
And the cops, kvetching because she was crying when they put in the patrol car -- in handcuffs. I wonder how brave the big bad policeman would have been if HE had been arrested and handcuffed at the age of 11.
What a bunch of morons. I'm glad the attorney was able to stalemate the idiot prosecutor and get her off.
man I feel dirty just living in a country in which this happens. 1 girl vs 6 or 7 boys and one gets a cut and a bloody head and SHE gets blamed. Gee I hope my best friends sister does not read this
I egged her one Halloween and she broke my nose. kicked it flush with my face, man I could put her away for years.
I egged her one Halloween and she broke my nose. kicked it flush with my face, man I could put her away for years.
Fletchette
Member
Well, it was her own fault! She wasn't wearing a burka!
California is lost.
Gillster
Member
Looks like cooler heads finely prevailed. SHe didn't have to plead guilty and if she stays clean it will be erased. She just has to sit down and talk about the incident with the "victim".
Chris
Chris
Aguila Blanca
Member
I wonder if the same jurisdiction would ask a rape victim who had shot her assailant to sit down and talk with the rapist ...
:banghead:
:banghead:
JohnBT
Member
Well, if they threw the first rocks - fair is fair. I say let her go.
John
John
Yes.
DAs do it all the time in domestic violence cases (prosecute with an uncooperative victim), but that's because they HAVE to, by state law. Here, they had a choice - apparently just arrogant and dumb. It will blow up in their face if she is acquitted at trial - we'll see.
Edited: Oops, I see the DA caved - Ha, ha.
CAS700850
Member
First, a brief mea culpa. In all the while, I never notcied that Maribel had rocks thrown at her in addition to the balloons. I suppose that trying to read threads and talk on teh phone about work was too taxing for my brain, and reading suffered for it. I now understand where the "self-defense" angle fits into this situation.
Second, as to D.A.'s pushing through charges when victims are either uncooperative or simply do not want to go forward...GunGoBoom mentions D.V. cases. Yes, there are D.V. cases when I force the victim to participate and cooperate with the prosecution. Is it wrong to push a situation where there's a known criminal with a history of similar crimes (I do felony level D.V., which means at least one prior conviction) that is going to get away with a violent offense unless I push a victim? Granted, I will often go along with a victim, and drop charges. But, if there are significant injuries, or if there are children in the home, I will push hard. Especially with children in the home.
Flame away.
Second, as to D.A.'s pushing through charges when victims are either uncooperative or simply do not want to go forward...GunGoBoom mentions D.V. cases. Yes, there are D.V. cases when I force the victim to participate and cooperate with the prosecution. Is it wrong to push a situation where there's a known criminal with a history of similar crimes (I do felony level D.V., which means at least one prior conviction) that is going to get away with a violent offense unless I push a victim? Granted, I will often go along with a victim, and drop charges. But, if there are significant injuries, or if there are children in the home, I will push hard. Especially with children in the home.
Flame away.
Master Blaster
Member
Well I think that the LA pd swat and the office of homland security should send the entire lot of them to GITMO.
Then the californica legislature should pass a law to put a serial number of every rock in the entire state, so that the next this happens police will be able to catch the perpetrators instantly.
Then the californica legislature should pass a law to put a serial number of every rock in the entire state, so that the next this happens police will be able to catch the perpetrators instantly.
Beren
Moderator Emeritus
Wouldn't have helped here - she threw their own rock back at them. The serial number would have been traced back to the "victim."
Gray Peterson
Member
FYI,
Alan Autry, the mayor of Fresno, played Lt. Bubba Skinner in "In the Heat of the Night" back in the late 80's/early 90's.
Alan Autry, the mayor of Fresno, played Lt. Bubba Skinner in "In the Heat of the Night" back in the late 80's/early 90's.
bcochran
Member
charges dropped
Charges dropped.
Any one want to wager on whether this child/person will have similar problems in the future or not?
Charges dropped.
Any one want to wager on whether this child/person will have similar problems in the future or not?
Phyphor
Member
Firefighter said:
What? In 20+ Murder-A-Year-Fresno, CA? The cops actually have something to DO? Go figure!
Seriously, you'd think they would have let that one go (as of now, from what I understand, she WON'T stand trial, ) seeing as there's much, much worse things going on. But of course, they gotta go for the easy ones....
What? In 20+ Murder-A-Year-Fresno, CA? The cops actually have something to DO? Go figure!
Seriously, you'd think they would have let that one go (as of now, from what I understand, she WON'T stand trial, ) seeing as there's much, much worse things going on. But of course, they gotta go for the easy ones....
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