11 year old suspended because of watergun

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It's a GOOD Thing...

It's a GOOD Thing that it didn't accidentally Go OFF in the school. Why, maybe someone might have gotten WET !!! I feel safer already, don't you ?
 
Oh boy,I am absoultely astounded that in the USA,a kid can get suspended from school,for carrying a water pistol.I can understand this in my own messed-up,politically correct lunatic-asylum of a country,but surely not the good old U S of A.

I can understand if it was a blank-firing licensed replica pistol or a non-firing pistol,but not a water pistol,which is blatently obviously,to the naked eye-harmless.:what: :what:
Hahaha,what a bunch of jokers,the school officials are.I bet your kid is happy,with time off from school.:) :)

In my high school,sometime ago,sixth formers (senior high-school kids,who study pre-college qualifications,before employment or college.)used to bring in Super Soaker water rifles,-complete with the pump-action-and they used to squirt each other and other kids with them.

The only thing they got told off for,was because they were being irritating and inconsiderate,towards others.
 
eng23ine: if you were in the UK, your kid, your wife & yourself would be behind bars for that.

No you wouldn't be:nothing would be done about it,because it is an obviously,cheap,non-realistic,water-pistol and not a realistic replica gun.If you tried to hold up the school or a bank with it,then people would be killing themselves laughing,at your buffoonery.

However this does not include airsoft guns and others styled-on or direct copies of real firearms.If the gun was a a realistic Japanise-made replica of say,a Beretta or a Glock-then the cops would grill you,for it and remind you,not to buy a realistic replica,for an under 18.
 
The issue here is not that he brought a "toy" gun to school; the issue is that he broke a school policy. Believe it or not, when a policy/rule is broken there most often comes punishment. His punishment is for breaking the policy--yes, the policy is a bogus one, but that does not justify his actions. Parents cannot justify their children's actions--the child must learn to follow the rules and accept punishment for breaking the rules.

Dad, with all due respect, you cannot allow your son to treat his suspension as a vacation. What will stop him from breaking another policy just to get a 2-day "vacation" from school? Now, you may be thinking, "it's just a toy!" No, it's the principle. Punishment--whether in our eyes justified or not--is still punishment. It has to be treated that way! Your son has to grow up and accept the consequences for his actions. Let him do that--don't coddle him. If you want your son to be a "man" make him face his problems with honor, dignity, and respect for authority. At the same time, LOVE HIM! He needs the love of a father to help guide him in the way you want him to go.

Am I reading too much into the situation? I do not think so. Let him learn on his own, but you must be there to guide him.
 
the child must learn to follow the rules and accept punishment for breaking the rules.
Ah.... No.

I would hope that he learns not to have blind faith in authority, but rather to question it, and recognize when it is wrong. Blind, unquestioned acquiesce to authority is what Hitler demanded, and got. We may look back and see what the consequences were for both Germany and the world.

The school’s policy is based on the premise that firearms have no legitimate place in our society, other then the police and military, and any knowledge or interest in them should be wiped out of their young students minds. If at all possible they should be reduced to something that is reprehensible and should be feared and loathed. The aim is to within a generation or two, destroy the American gun culture and the values that it represents, and as such is something to be resisted.

This country was founded by men who had the fortitude to resist authority when they believed it was wrong. They were not subjects of a royal government that deserved unquestioned obedience.

Hopefully this is what the young man will learn.
 
kingfuhippie said
What if that pistol was filled with acid!

Reminds me of when a kid peed into his squirt gun and went around shooting at people. When he got to me I took the gun away from him and started shooting it into his mouth. Found out later what he had actually filled it with.

But, I didn't feel bad about it.
 
Even more ironic

is that these kids who, in school, cannot be exposed to a gun, a replica gun, a toy gun, a water gun, a picture of a gun, the word "gun".....

go home and play video games where they slaughter their friends, murder cops, beat up hookers, etc. etc. etc......
 
"I would hope that he learns not to have blind faith in authority, but rather to question it, and recognize when it is wrong"

I would say yes to that when he is an adult, not as an 11 year old boy. CHILDREN need to learn to follow the rules. And we wonder why so many of the children in the United States turn out the way they do!! It's because they are taught to question EVERYTHING, and not learn to show their authorities the respect they deserve. I know in my home if I questioned my parents I would get in even bigger trouble. Old Fluff, I would venture to say that would have been the case in your home.

What has happened to our children being RESPECTFUL??? I do not care how dumb the rule may be. It is still a rule whether we agree with it or not. I cannot believe that is so hard for people to understand. This is truly a sad country we live in. We have schools running dictatorships behind closed doors, and we have parents encouraging our children to be disrespectful. Do these not go hand in hand? Would schools still need to run school as a dictatorial society if parents would train their children properly? I think not.

Let him learn to question when he FULLY understands what he is questioning. These are extremely formative years--what a shame it would be if he only learned to be critical of authorities!
 
There is a difference in questioning and being desrespectful. There is also a difference between being educated and being brainwashed to follow a left-wing "progressive" agenda. When I went to school (and that would be in the 1940's and early 50's) we were educated and not brainwashed - and as a consequence showed our teachers the respect that they deserved because they earned it. What went on then is far cry from what we see today.

Today's educational establishment is using Zero Tolerance as a method to attack the vey concept of private gun ownership, and if you look at some of the examples posted here - including the example behind this thread - it is clear that it has nothing too do with school security. It was absolutely obvious that the "gun" was a toy, and offered no threat. The boy was punished(?) because of his connection with guns as a concept. From the father's point of view this was a direct attack on his family values, and his reaction is both understandable and justified.
 
The boy was not suspened because of "guilt by association." He was suspended because he BROKE A RULE. Wow, I must say that I, too, was struggling to grasp that concept. I am looking at the "respect" side of the situation, not the eduacation/brainwashing side. But since you brought it up, here we go.

He is not being brainwashed. He enjoys guns, and so does his father. Where is the brainwashing? I am still in school pursuing a degree in Social Studies Education. My goal is to teach students--not brainwash them--and teach them the proper way to question ideas and rules. I have no desire to brainwash my students. The majority of teachers in elementary and high school are not out to brainwash--their passion is education. My goal is education and instilling in my students a love and passion for History. Nowadays, teachers have a lot of freedom to teach what they see fit, whether profitable for the students or not. Students in higher education (high school, college, post-grad) have been taught the proper way to question a rule or belief. An 11 year-old boy, in my opinion, has not been trained in the proper way to question. His mental capacity is still growing, and his understanding of the world around him is growing. Let him be a kid for a while and learn to be respectful. When he has learned repect, allow him to question. As much as the world around us does not like that idea, it is the only way to properly train a child.
 
Of course the public school community isn't brainwashing their students concerning firearms. :rolleyes: Although as a "safety measure," and in the course of enforcing Zero Tolerance they don't under any circumstances allow any kind of a representation of a firearm, be it a toy, a picture, or even a pointed finger. Punishment is applied equally, regardless of the circumstances of the incident and/or the age of the offender. And with few exceptions you never see firearms presented in a positive context. Even firearms safety material is off limits.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens when graduate, and get a job in the real world of today's public school educational system. I think you are in for a culture shock.

Respect is not something you get simply because you are - in theory at least- an adult authority figure. Respect is something you earn. In any school there are teachers and staff that are highly respected by their students, and there are those that could fall off the roof and hardly be noticed. The youngster in question made an honest mistake, and got slammed for it. Now you expect him to have any respect for the slammer??? Even further you expect his father to take the school's side in this?

Perhaps your stand for unquestioned obedience and respect might be based on the fact that you are about to become a teacher?
 
What has happened to people standing up and taking responsibilty for their actions? He broke a rule--now he has to deal with the consequences. Whether we agree with the rule or not does not change the fact that he broke it. Complaining about rules (Zero Tolerance or some other rule) gets people nowhere but on the path to frustration. He is 11 years old. Keep that in mind. My opinion is based on the way I was raised, not on my future profession. Keep that in mind as well. Respect and blind following are not the same thing.
 
It's much safer to break a law knowingly than to do it through ignorance. --Lazurus Long, Time Enough For Love

Explain to your kid that some laws or rules aren't worth breaking because the benefits are minor compared to the punishment and the chance of geting caught is high. Also explain that morality has little to do with many of the laws and rules on the books. Help him develop critical judgment.
 
Critical thinking is apparently now such a dangerous activity that it should be restricted to adults, and then only after receiving professional instruction in the "right" way to do so. How sad...
 
He broke a rule--now he has to deal with the consequences.


Exactly which of these rules did he break by carrying a TOY that is generally shaped like a firearm?

the full context can be found at http://www.clevelandcountyschools.org/pdfs/code_of_conduct.pdf


Threat / False Threat - Making
any threat through written or verbal lan-guage,
sign or act which conveys a se-rious
expression of intent to cause harm
or violence. Furthermore, no student
shall make a false threat of harm or vio-lence,
even in jest, which causes or is
reasonably likely to cause fear or a dis-ruption
to school activities.



Possession of Weapons other than
Firearms - Possessing, handling, trans-mitting,
or bringing on to school prop-erty
any items including, but not lim-ited
to, knife, BB gun, air rifle, air pis-tol,
sling shot, blackjack, metal knuck-les,
bludgeon, bowie knife,
switchblade, dirk, dagger, leaded cane,
stun gun or other electronic shock
weapon, pepper spray, razors and ra-zor
blades, or any sharp-pointed or
edged instrument, or facsimile or other
item that could be considered a weapon
or dangerous instrument. This policy
does not apply to instructional supplies,
unaltered nail files and clips, or tools
used solely for preparation of food, in-struction,
or maintenance.

Possession or Use of a Firearm -Possessing,
handling, using, transmit-ting
or bringing onto educational prop-erty,
or to a school-sponsored curricu-lar
or extracurricular activity off edu-cational
property, a gun, rifle, pistol or
other firearm.
This section does not apply to students
who are members of the Reserve Of-ficer
Training Corps (ROTC) and who
are required to carry arms or weapons
in their official class duties or to weap-ons
used solely in official school in-struction
or ceremonies, with the prior
approval of the principal.
 
czdavid - There is an enormous difference between a rule that says "You may not bring toys to school" and "possessing an 'imitation firearm' is a serious crime that will result in unduly harsh punishment". The first is a rule that must be followed. The second is just PC nonsense.

If the penalty for having a water gun at school is severely different than that for having any other nuisance item, something is severely out of whack.
 
What the heck?!?!

They suspended him for a water gun (if I recall correctly), when they have THIS in their handbook?!?!?!

"This section does not apply to students who are members of the Reserve Officer Training Corps (ROTC) and who are required to carry arms or weapons in their official class duties or to weapons used solely in official school instruction or ceremonies, with the prior approval of the principal."

One, or possibly more, of the administrators at your child's district needs to be replaced.

Doc2005
 
you may get a kick . . .
I teach school. Every day I get a chance to discuss reality with students, which occasionally upsets bubble-headed parents. Our library has a few weapons books and a few of my students are into hunting and shooting so the conversation comes up a lot, which is great! The funny thing is that the librarians (Media Center Specialists P.C. term) control every element of what kids read and think. Students are only allowed to research topics on the 'school approved' website which has little to no interesting facts, nothing on war, nothing on reality, nothing but happy pictures of a river and some currency from different countries. Fortunately we study China, and therefore cover propoganda, thought control, cultural manipulation, and communism. The library is a good example, and the popular news gives evidence of bias and the importance of critical thinking.
Last week I used a camera from the library. It had been in my bag when we were at the range so I took some shots (erm, pictures) of my buddies with the SKS, .308, among others. You can imagine the horror on the librarians face when she walked up in the hall with the camera displaying a picture of a GUN! She said, "Is this you? Did you take this . . . picture?" I said, sure, but that I neglected to erase it. She said tersely, "School camera's may NOT be used for anything of this...nature...cannot be taken home for any reason." I apologized and said "Yes ma'am I'll remember that."
Fortunately, my students know they have one teacher at least that would go down fighting to protect them, or at least coming up with a way to help them escape a bad situation. Hey, not all teachers are working for the destruction of America.

Be prepared.
ST



Man, why couldn't I have had you for a teacher, instead of those sheeples infiltrating the public school system.
 
Nat'l Guard Col. Brought M16s to School

When I was in high school 1975-1979, our Asst. Principal was a Col. in the MI Nat'l Guard. Once per year, he would bring some M16s (yes, full auto) to the school for the guys who were interested in becoming guardsmen could try them. The guys would take them (with the Col) to the practice football field and fire 1 magazines each.

"Sheeple" seems to be the best word to describe what society has become. Even U.S. Supreme Ct. Just. Sandra Day-O'Conner stated that Americans have virtually no concept of their Constitutional rights. It was her #1 pet peeve.

Doc2005
 
The ABA Zero Tolerance Report

The American Bar Association's report on "Zero Tolerance Policy" in schools is worth reading.

It explains that these Zero Tolerance situations are misguided attempts to impose the equivalent of mandatory sentencing for adults to children and often result in lifetime sentences for kids.

I'd suggest reading the summary of that report to clarify your thinking about the situation, then writing a carefully worded--and temperate--letter to the school board (with a copy to the school principal) applying the ABA approach to that situation. If I were in your shoes I'd explain that children of your son's age are not adults, are incapable of thinking like adults, and are caused irreparable harm when a school system is unable to meet its responsibility to educate a child of your son's age appropriately.

I would most certainly cite the ABA report and refer to its statements in that letter.
 
reason to question authority.

I would hope that he learns not to have blind faith in authority, but rather to question it, and recognize when it is wrong. Blind, unquestioned acquiesce to authority is what Hitler demanded, and got. We may look back and see what the consequences were for both Germany and the world.

With good reason.....

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What a Shame.

I wish I were the administrator of that school. We are charged, as educators, with a responsibility to teach and to encourage children to think for themselves, to challenge not the legitimacy of authority, but rather to challenge the basis of "facts" upon which authority has alleged it position(s) to have been grounded. There was a day, not so very far back, that one could be killed for asserting that the earth was not factually flat.

Doc2005
 
Do you have an elected school board where you live? Nothing in school rules and policies gets there without their approval. If you don't like the rules and policies, then you have the power to replace those who make them. In fact, you have the power to become one of those who make them. That goes for anyone who lives in a state that uses local, elected school boards. Therefore, instead of being here moaning about brainwashing, and liberal agendas, and all the standard-issue schools-as-gummint-indoctrination-centers griping, let me offer you some practical suggestions:
1. Get a copy of your school districts discipline codes and policies and become familiar with it. Do it now, not after your child gets in trouble.
2. If you find something in the policies that you find disagreeable, contact your school district and inquire why the policy exists.
3. Still want it changed? Start contacting school board members and attend board meetings, if necessary. Make your case politely and sanely. Foam-flecked rantings about brainwashing and anti-gun agendas will do nothing but get you branded as a nutcase. You may wish to enlist the aid of a lawyer in helping you draw up your case for changing or discarding the rule or rules.
4. Still no joy? Run for school board. Seats on the board are often uncontested. In too many towns, due to voter apathy, just getting your family and friends to vote for you will be enough to get you on the board. You will now be in a position to advance your agenda, whatever it may be. I suggest you still refrain from ranting, though. You'll be wanting to win enough other board members over to your position to have a majority when proposals get voted on.
 
Joe +1

Joe is correct. That said, I will post the quote that I give to my "Educational Leadership" M.A. students in the opening session:

"The only thing that is going to be more uncomfortable than having a parent show up at your local board meeting to complain about your policy interpretations, will be the day I have to show up to testify against you in court because you violated a child's civil rights and weren't smart enough to listen at the school board level. Where policy or procedure are unclear, be sure that you use the highest ethical standards."

We engage in considerable decision-making through case studies in class. These case studies are drawn from my collection of 206 major decisions made as a K-12 administrator. They have to apply their local handbook, policies and established procedures.

This is my contribution as a graduate professor of education and educational leadership.

Doc2005
 
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