1100 12 Gauge: Breech Bolt & Barrel locked and cannot be removed.

[Virginian]

All of my 1100s will run the dreaded Winchester Universals, but they rip the heads on about 50% of the shells on ejection. All of the chambers are like mirrors. An Acquaintance bought a used BPS and it locked up after firing. He was totally bummed. After we got the action open, the chamber also looked and felt like a mirror. On a whim, I ran a drum brake wheel cylinder hone in the chamber for a little bit. Didn't look one bit different, but it fires anything without locking up now.
You may do whatever you like with your gun. Good luck.

 

[lavernes]

Good to know - thanks. The consensus here seems to be a rough bore and/or ammo issue. We'll see.

 

[Wireman]

"Good to know - thanks. The consensus here seems to be a rough bore and/or ammo issue. We'll see."

We were all tossing this exact issue around a couple months ago. In that case, the OP was unwilling to observe the obvious source of the problem. To summarize, the problem occurred with steel based ammo, but not brass based ammo. Hint. The problem has nothing to do with a "sticky" or rough chamber. It has everything to do with the barrel itself. I guarantee that both the 870 and the 1100 can shoot steel based ammo with ease after a very simple surgical procedure (which should have been done at the factory). Correct, internet complaints are on the rise, but so is the use of steel based ammo. Grab a few of the offending fired hulls, take them home and observe how they fit into the chamber with careful attention to the rims.

Or, you can use the technique so often demonstrated on you tube. Simply slam the butt of the gun down on the ground as vigorously as possible. 2 or 3 whacks should do it.

WM

 

[MEHavey]

While I went ahead and polished the heck out of the
Remington 870 Express a couple of years ago [that
mitigated the problem], I have a feeling the fine
brake hone is a better idea.

Can't prove it, but I'll bet the hone leaves the rear of
the chamber with just the sliiiiiiiightest taper
-- absolutely essential for steel case extraction in
any firearm.

 

[Virginian]

Make sure if you use a brake cylinder hone you do not extract the spinning hone one bit past halfway in an effort to bevel the entrance to the chamber or you will have a small train wreck.
Several people are of the opinion all problems are due to ridges outside the camber on the barrel extension. I have seen pictures of supposedly offending barrels. I have not seen one in person. I have seen several chambers with ridges or machining marks that made extraction, especially with steel hulled ammo, and issue, and honing solved every one of those. Steel hulls have had issues in Remingtons, Mossbergs, Ithacas, and even BPSs. It seems no one polishes chambers as well as they used to, but with quality ammo it is not a problem. I am not going to pay for premium ammo all the time. $4 a shot for a duck is okay, but $2 for a clay pigeon is not needed in my opinion.

 

[lavernes]

I just checked and I only have 3 rounds of the problem WW steel based shells. Maybe I'll try some of my brass Remington "sport" loads and 00 buck too and see what happens.

Wireman: Please elaborate on this procedure.
"I guarantee that both the 870 and the 1100 can shoot steel based ammo with ease after a very simple surgical procedure (which should have been done at the factory)."

 

[lavernes]

A different (I think it's unrelated) question:
Has anyone noticed a significant increase in recoil when shooting the same load in the 18.5" barrel as opposed to a longer barrel? I notice the light game loads "kick" more with the 18.5" than with the 21" SF barrel I hunt quail with. Almost feel like a high base heavy game load.

 

[Onmilo]

A different (I think it's unrelated) question:
Has anyone noticed a significant increase in recoil when shooting the same load in the 18.5" barrel as opposed to a longer barrel? I notice the light game loads "kick" more with the 18.5" than with the 21" SF barrel I hunt quail with. Almost feel like a high base heavy game load.

Taking 2 1/2" off the barrel also takes about four ounces off the gun weight so yeah, every shell is going to kick a bit more.
Your perception of this increase in recoil is strictly personal.

 

[200Apples]

.
The barrel that lavernes inadvertently alerted me to arrived today. The aft end of the barrel was covered in a thick factory oil. Also, the chamber had something like overspray in it; perhaps from the barrel exterior's matte finishing process. I cleaned the exterior with Hoppe's gun oil and the chamber bore and bore with a rag soaked in Hoppe's bore solvent spun by a dowel in a drill motor. The chamber bore is clean and smooth and the bore looks like a mirror, now.

I don't know when I'm going to get a chance to shoot it; probably not for another week but from a "tacti-cool" standpoint, I like it. I like wood-furniture on my social shotguns.

 

[lavernes]

200Apples: Please post your results with the new barrel. Sounds like you'll be shooting before I get a chance.

 

[200Apples]

.
Just returned from a quick trip to a local range. I did not run any steel-based shotshells; I ran all brass loads. There were no stuck shotshells in the chamber. I did not take any pictures, but I did shoot 5 rounds each of these three low-recoil choices:

1150 fps Fiocchi LE 00 9-pellet buck - did not cycle

1500 fps Fiocchi 1 oz slug - did not cycle

1300 fps Fiocchi 7/8 oz slug - did not cycle


Then, guessing the standard-velocity-for-buck-loads would work, I ran 10 ea of the following:

1325 fps Federal 00 9-pellet buck - o yea - ran the gun fine. This stuff patterned beautifully with distinct individual pellet holes but within a tight, 5" to 6" spread at 5 yards, and next to Hornady "TiteWad" 8-pellet 00 buck (1600 fps) will be my defense load of choice. This Federal gives a little more spread than the Hornady patterns, which, at 5 yds is still one hole. This Federal is a bulk-packaged, 25 rds-per-white-box stuff, not the Flite Control wad stuff.

1325 fps Fiocchi HV 00 - good to go. 5" to 6" spread at 5 yds

1325 fps Winchester 00 9-pellet - good to go; crisp pellet holes, 5" to 6" spread at 5 yds


Conclusion: As with the 22" slug barrel, this 18.5" Imp Cyl barrel works with standard (-velocity; 1325 fps or greater) buck and slug loads and will run the gun as designed in a semi-automatic action.

Low Recoil no bueno. When using low-recoil stuff, the shotgun will not cycle *completely*, to eject the spent shotshell and then load the next live round.

The shotgun with low-recoil loads can, however, in a pinch, be run somewhat like a bolt-action:

1. Discharge the round with a trigger squeeze

2. Yank the bolt handle briskly back to manually eject the spent shotshell, then, with the action locked open with a live round ready to be lifted and inserted into battery,

3. Press the action release button on the bottom of the receiver (on the carrier), sending the bolt home into battery

4. Fire the weapon and repeat.


One could run the gun this way quite quickly with practice if low-recoil shotshells were the only ammunition available to the operator.

 

[lavernes]

Thanks for posting your testing results - much appreciated.
I've got a lot of "1325 fps Winchester 00 9-pellet" rounds so I'll see how they work for me.

BTW: How was the recoil with the standard 00 loads?

 

[200Apples]

.

How was the recoil with the standard 00 loads?

It was akin to a pump gun running low-recoil loads. It's a sweet setup. And my pumps are wearing good recoil pads. This 1100 is wearing a hard plastic butt plate.

I have pump guns that will run anything and everything, then I have this 1100 which will run standard 1325 through 1600 fps buck and slug loads with distinction. And the gun is short and handy. It's the same overall length as an 870 wearing an 18.5 incher.

 

[aidast]

You mentioned that you shot some old winchester loads..please correct me if I'm wrong, but i think shotgun powder gets stronger when it ages = more recoil...
I remember having some Kent 3.5" waterfowl loads that was painfull to shoot from rem 11-87 with limbsaver pad..

 

[Slamfire]

The ammo is some old Winchester "dove loads" (steel silver-colored base) I've had for a few years. However I had zero problems using them in my other barrels.

How old? Old gunpowder creates pressure problems.

 

[Virginian]

What's all this crap about old gunpowder? Smokeless powder will effervesce some volatiles off if it is not stored in an airtight manner, and will thus LOSE some "power" if you want to call it that. I have shot old paper shotshells with zero ill effects. A loaded shotshell is relatively - repeat relatively - airtight as far as the powder is concerned.

 

[lavernes]

I thought old shells lost power too. But I fired some old (15 years?) Activ (all synthetic case & rim) heavy field loads through my 870 express 18.5" a while back and they kicked like 00 buck.

 

[Slamfire]

What's all this crap about old gunpowder?

I have written extensively on old, deteriorated gunpowder. While the collective shooting community is in denial about this, old gunpowder gets dangerous with age for a number of reasons. These are threads which I provided information on old gunpowder and old ammunition.

Old Powder Caused Fire!
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=788841


Old powder

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=787843


Shelf life of reloads?

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=758305


Look at the pictures in this thread:


Has anyone else had Vihtavuori N140 corrode in loaded ammo?

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3745264

The green corrosion inside the brass cases came from nitric acid gas outgassing from old deteriorated gunpowder. This nitric acid gas also attacks the brass causing case splits. When the corrosion is extreme it will cause pin hole through corrosion of the case. I have seen all of these.

Gunpowder lifetime is unpredictable, a rule of thumb is 20 years for double based, 45 years for single based. Some fails sooner. Hardly any gunpowder is safe past 45 years. Old gunpowder in bulk will autocombust. Old gunpowder in cartridge cases has, will, blow up firearms. Heat is the worst enemy of gunpowder. Temperatures over 86 F accelerate the deterioration.

 

[lavernes]

Long overdue update...
After polishing the chamber (low speed drill) with a steel wool wrapped brass cleaning brush, I tried the 1100/18.5" combo again.
- 1325 fps Winchester 00 9-pellet = 100% function
- Remington 3 oz Field Loads = FTE every time.
I guess this one will only function 100% with standard 00 loads. Fine by me as can swap the 22" special field barrel for light load shooting or us my 870 18.5".

Thanks to all for your feedback.

 

[Virginian]

Just to be sure the problem is not something else, if it jams again, drop the trigger group out. If it opens easily then you have a different problem.