I own the Glock 19 and sometimes shoot a Sig p239. I've been shooting Winchester 115 and 147 grain range ammo and now i'm looking for a defensive round. I've narrowed my search down to the Winchester 115 Silver-tip or the Speer 115 Gold Dot. I found these rounds after looking for standard pressure rounds that had no chance of overpenetrating but hit with alot of energy to open the hollow point shortly after the initial penetration. The Silver-tip seems to have aquired a bad reputation for underpenetration however it looks great on paper with a velocity of 1225 and an energy rating of 383. The Gold Dot looks less impressive on paper: velocity 1200, energy 368, but these lesser ratings might cause it to avoid underpenetration. Well those are my thoughts, does anyone have any experiance with either round?
115 silver tip or 115 gold dot?
- Thread starter Ryan585
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ugaarguy
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Why not +P loads since the Glock will easily handle them? As far as the debate between Silver Tips and Gold Dots I think its a draw. They're both new designs that work well in the lab from what I've read. I'd shoot a box of each thru the pistol and see which load groups best thru it - shot placemant is gonna be your biggest factor and both are quality rounds.
If you can't decide between the two, do what I do, alternate them every other round in the mag. I pick a round recommended by Fackler and a round recommended by Marshall and alternate them every other round in the magazine.
Consider doing the same thing with Silvertips and Golddots if you can't decide between the two.
Consider doing the same thing with Silvertips and Golddots if you can't decide between the two.
Gary G23
Member
Everything I've read seems to indicate the 124gr +p Gold Dot is the way to go. With 9mm you need all the help you can get.
stevelyn
Member
I don't how Silvertips are made these days, but in the past I've seen them shed their jackets.
I like the Gold Dots. Our department issues them for duty and I also use Gold Dots in everything, but .45 ACP.
I carry the 115 gr Gold Dots in my BHP.
I like the Gold Dots. Our department issues them for duty and I also use Gold Dots in everything, but .45 ACP.
I carry the 115 gr Gold Dots in my BHP.
TOADMAN
Member
Probably better to go with a +P 9mm round for self defense..I do the Speer Gold Dot 124gr+P short barrel ammo but - like most folks here will tell ya - any of the top three self defense ammo makers will suffice...
nitesite
Member
I use Speer Gold Dot bullets almost exclusively. They have a bonded core that doesn't allow the jacket to separate. This meant the most retained weight as the bullet expands. The heavier weight allows the bullet to drive as deeply as possible.
Have you noticed how overweight America is becoming? I want maximum penetration. The 9mm needs all it can achieve.
Have you noticed how overweight America is becoming? I want maximum penetration. The 9mm needs all it can achieve.
The actual difference between any premium ammo of the same type and weight is insignificant. You can choose the way most poeple do, by the one that has the best marketing OR use buy a sample of each, shoot it and see if you can tell any difference in accuracy, reliablility or any thing else that makes you like one over the other.
I buy defense type ammo when found at a good price regardless of brand. Some of the best per round ammo cost is surplus LEO ammo like Winchester Ranger +P and +P+ but there are good deals to be found on others.
I buy defense type ammo when found at a good price regardless of brand. Some of the best per round ammo cost is surplus LEO ammo like Winchester Ranger +P and +P+ but there are good deals to be found on others.
Ken Rainey
Member
Overpenetration is overblown...you should worry more about missing...a marginal hit with a lightweight bullet will still "overpenetrate"...it's best to worry about getting a bullet with enough penetration so that you have a better chance of incapacitating the BG.
The SilverTip ammo will have bullet set back after chambering more than a couple of times...it seems that the "silver" bullet doesn't adhere very well to the brass case after chambering...but, if it shoots to point of aim in your pistol and you are comfortable with that bullet weight, then use it and just keep an eye on the chambered rd when you clear your pistol.
It seems to me that 9mm handguns shoot closer to point of aim with 124 grain bullets, at distance anyway, (maybe because that was what they were designed for??)....anyway, I'd find a standard pressure 124 grain bullet and go from there....using 147 grain ammo would be even better for up close and personal defensive use...although the 115s/124s will probably hit closer to aim at distance...124s split the difference as they say...but I prefer the heavier bullet for defensive use. Of course, YMMV as each pistol is "different".
The SilverTip ammo will have bullet set back after chambering more than a couple of times...it seems that the "silver" bullet doesn't adhere very well to the brass case after chambering...but, if it shoots to point of aim in your pistol and you are comfortable with that bullet weight, then use it and just keep an eye on the chambered rd when you clear your pistol.
It seems to me that 9mm handguns shoot closer to point of aim with 124 grain bullets, at distance anyway, (maybe because that was what they were designed for??)....anyway, I'd find a standard pressure 124 grain bullet and go from there....using 147 grain ammo would be even better for up close and personal defensive use...although the 115s/124s will probably hit closer to aim at distance...124s split the difference as they say...but I prefer the heavier bullet for defensive use. Of course, YMMV as each pistol is "different".
147 gr Golden Sabers is the way to go. Check out how the 124 gr ones did through a mouse gun, compared to everything else. http://www.goldenloki.com/ammo/gel/9mm/gel9.htm Completely, utterly, totaly blew away everything else. 147s are even better.
I generally try to shoot the heaviest bullet that will reliably work in my 9mm. I have never liked 115-grain bullets, and greatly prefer 124 grain Gold Dots. I don’t care about over-penetration. I would never shoot at anything without considering what is behind it. In fact, I may be intentionally shooting through something anyway, like a TV or couch. Lately, I have taken it up another notch and am using 147 grain Winchester Rangers...not really answering your question though. I prefer Gold Dots; I’ve used a variation of the Gold Dot bullet in just about every handgun I own, and have never had an issue. I cannot really think of a problem I’ve had with Silvertips, other than occasional oxidation around the primers, but I haven’t shot them in many semi-auto handguns either. Reliability in your gun and capability in your hands are what's important.
Zundfolge
Member
I currently pack 147gr Speer Gold Dots in my EDC 9mm ... however recently I discovered these Corbon DPX (all copper) HPs ... I think that a box of them will be my next ammo purchase.
Stephen A. Camp wrote an excellent review of them here
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon 9mm 115.htm
Stephen A. Camp wrote an excellent review of them here
http://www.hipowersandhandguns.com/Corbon 9mm 115.htm
Thanks for the replys. I'm now convinced that a bonded bullet with a little more weight would be best, like the Speer 124 Gold Dot. However I just looked at some of the tests done on the Speer and the results were not very good, the Speer lost to the 124 Golden Saber and didn't get very good expansion in clothed gelatin. Yet everyone raves about the Speer round, it's used by the NYPD of all people. I'd like to use the Speer but i'd have to see better test results or test them myself as some of you suggested. Is there any recent testing information that gives the Speer 124 Gold Dot a favorable rating?
George S.
Member
I like the Remington Golden Saber 147gr JHP's too. From the tests I have read and pics I have seen, they expand better than the Federal Hydra-Shok and are an equal to the Speer Gold Dot.
Richard509
Member
Winchester USA9JHP is a good choice
Read all three pages.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_8_48/ai_87564357
USA9JHP
Muzzle Velocity: 1225 fps
Muzzle Energy: 383 ft. lbs.
Expansion: 0.652"
Tests are with 4 inch barrels and my Taurus PT92's have 5 inch barrels so I'm well over 1300 fps and well over 400 ft. lbs.
Shoots perfect (repeated bullseye at 15 yards and no jams, 3 inch groups at 30 yards) in both of my Taurus PT92's, so that is what I carry.
Read all three pages.
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BQY/is_8_48/ai_87564357
USA9JHP
Muzzle Velocity: 1225 fps
Muzzle Energy: 383 ft. lbs.
Expansion: 0.652"
Tests are with 4 inch barrels and my Taurus PT92's have 5 inch barrels so I'm well over 1300 fps and well over 400 ft. lbs.
Shoots perfect (repeated bullseye at 15 yards and no jams, 3 inch groups at 30 yards) in both of my Taurus PT92's, so that is what I carry.
choochboost
Member
Where can I find these tests?Ryan585 said:
You can find these tests at:
http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/9mm.htm
About midway down the page under FBI tests for the above url
see also http://www.ballisticreview.com/9mm.html
http://www.firearmstactical.com/ammo_data/9mm.htm
About midway down the page under FBI tests for the above url
see also http://www.ballisticreview.com/9mm.html
choochboost
Member
Thanks, I'll check them out.
sm
member
Interesting Observation
Two loadings that have always been reliable in feeding, extraction, over a variety of semi-auto handguns, and magazines over the years :
9mm_ Winchester 115 gr STHP
45 ACP _Winchester 185 gr STHP
Maybe not always the best POA/POI, but the guns run with these. In the 45ACP, less percieved recoil affording quicker , accurate follow shots.
The 9mm has run in guns that would not run other premium ammo, and guns needed "adjustment" to run the other ammo.
Includes seasoned shooters, new shooters , CCW students and all the variables from dirty guns, dry guns needing lube, to weak hand , forced "limpwrist" testing".
Dunno if they changed these loads, back when if a gun would not run with a JHP, I /we could load these and get the gun to run...
Found that interesting, as a gun has to run, to do shot placement...
Two loadings that have always been reliable in feeding, extraction, over a variety of semi-auto handguns, and magazines over the years :
9mm_ Winchester 115 gr STHP
45 ACP _Winchester 185 gr STHP
Maybe not always the best POA/POI, but the guns run with these. In the 45ACP, less percieved recoil affording quicker , accurate follow shots.
The 9mm has run in guns that would not run other premium ammo, and guns needed "adjustment" to run the other ammo.
Includes seasoned shooters, new shooters , CCW students and all the variables from dirty guns, dry guns needing lube, to weak hand , forced "limpwrist" testing".
Dunno if they changed these loads, back when if a gun would not run with a JHP, I /we could load these and get the gun to run...
Found that interesting, as a gun has to run, to do shot placement...
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