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12 ga Shorty ammo, where to get???

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41022collector

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Hey all:

I need to find a source to get the 12 gauge shorty rounds. I believe they are either 1 1/2 or 1 3/4" length, maybe even 1 5/8" I am not really sure of the length.

I think they were made to work out of the 12 gauge orion Flare Launcher, but many have found they work great out of pumps and even some recoil operated semi-auto shotguns (was told they do not work out of gas op shotguns). I guess rather than 5 in the pipe you can have like 8 or so with the shorty rounds and makes for a great In-Home defense round as they are full power. but less shot weight shells. It also allows you to use a standard hunting shotgun as an extended shot shell capacity piece w/o adding an extension tube.

I am not sure what shot sizes they come in but the customer who was just here showed me some in #4, #6, Mini Buck, rubber ball, Tear Gas and something called a Kinetic Liquid round.

If you have the links or web page addy, please post it here and to me in a message so I am sure to get it.

None of my common ammo dealers sell it nor did they have a clue what I am talking about, hope you all do??? :confused:

Regards,
Mike
 
Got it and thank you.

As for the flare gun use, that is what the customer told me many were doing with it to get around FFL paperwork. It sounded like a bad idea to me, as after reading the article, the pressures are the same in the chamber.

He also showed me an magazine article from a popular WAR magazine for soldiers who make money fighting for other folks about the round and its use in the flare pistol as a back up and close quarters weapon. Was an interesting article and they said no malfucntions with this ammo, but I will be dammed if I try it out of a plastic launcher... not to mention the intent to circumvent the BATF and the NFA. Not worth 10 years and $10,000 fine for a plastic piece of a mess.


I am honestly interested in these for home defense, the article says carry 10 in a tube meant for 6.... good trade off for in home use to have 40% more ammo in the pipe.

I am ordering some now and will test it at the range to see if I would rec to my customers.

Again, thanks for the fast help on this :))
Regards,
Mike
 
Be sure and read about which guns will work with it and which ones won't.

Not all will without mods.

rc
 
I am honestly interested in these for home defense, the article says carry 10 in a tube meant for 6.... good trade off for in home use to have 40% more ammo in the pipe.
Click to expand...

So, shot number 8 is going to be the one you hit the bad guy with?

I can understand wanting maximum capacity, but if you have already fired 7 times and haven't gotten the job done, you should have brought a carbine, a buddy, or both to the fight.
 
IIRC, the Aguila mini-shells were designed for (or at least tested to be reliable with) the Winchester 1200/1300. From what I hear, 870's & 500's have a hard time feeding them, but there is supposedly a modification you can make to make them work.

Last I checked, Centerfire Systems carried them and had the best price, but they refused to ship into IL (despite the fact that the ILCS specifically allows mail-order ammo), so they're on my poop-list.
 
Acera, exactly, I would rather have the extra shot than keep my pride in a gun fight, especially if someone is counting your shots <evil grin>. If having more ammo is a shame in a gun fight, then tell the boys who have a Cmag 100 round mag set to lighten their load.

Plus these will allow me to have my niece and nephew shoot a 12 and get used to the weight of those pieces rather then step through the .410 to 20 to 12 game.

Have a great Monday all
Mike
 
I would rather have one extra, than be one short. So I guess I am with the OP on wanting more capacity.
Click to expand...

Capacity is nice, but I'd rather have reliability. I'm not sold on the reliability of these short shotshells. Give me 7 shots any day of the week over 4 shots and a jam.
 
What's to prevent two of the short rounds from trying to load at once and causing a jam. Second, if all they come in is #8, is that really the best load you want to use?

Not so sure about this. I would definitely be doing serious function testing
 
I tried 'em in several pumpguns years ago when they first came out. They were 'supposed' to work in Winchester 1300s- they didn't. Same for the Mossberg 500s and the Remington 870s I tried them in. Sometimes they would work, sometimes they wouldn't.

Reliability trumps magazine capacity every time in my book- I'd rather have four for sure than eight "maybes." Shotgun guru Louis Awerbuck says: "No magazine is ever big enough." Yr. humble scrivener sez, learn to load on the fly, and learn to worry less about magazine capacity. Of course, that takes practice...

JMHO, YMMV of course.

lpl (capability trumps capacity)
 
More

You also have these options, though not in the shot size you may want:


Vintager low-pressure 2" 12ga:
http://www.polywad.com/guide.html#2_shotgun_shells
and
Paraklese technologies, scroll down to " Product Name: Short Magnum Buckshot" and others (make sure you don't order any "LE only" ammo, unless you so qualify)
here: http://www.paraklesetechnologies.com/products.asp?mode=ProdCat&ProductCategory=4. Law Enforcement Ammunition
These are NOT low pressure but are shorter in length.
Hope this helps,
C-
 
Second, if all they come in is #8, is that really the best load you want to use?
Click to expand...
Wondering how #8 shot got involved in this?

The link I posted in #2 clearly show them to be available in #7 1/2, a Dual (7-#4B, 4-#1B) Buckshot Load, and Rifled Slugs.

I don't see any #8 offered.

rc
 
I have a very old 870 that is designed for "2 3/4 inch shells or shorter" on the barrel no less.
Click to expand...

The "or shorter" bit mainly refers to old 2-7/16" shells, no longer in common circulation.
 
Ok.... ordered and received 200 rounds for tests and if I would rec to my customers.

Rem - 870 - 20 shots = 5 jams, one jam so bad that it could not be cleared and needed to be field striped.

Mos 500 - 20 shots = 2 jams w/o the alteration, with it, ZERO jams

Mod 37 - 20 shots NO Jams, these went through this piece like butter, not even a hint of a jam, even when we tried to design a jam, total 60 rounds, zero jams and all patterened to about 87% at 20 feet in a 10" plate.

Win 1200 - 20 shots NO Jams, it worked, but I am not a fan of the 1200, good piece, just not for me.

Benelli - 20 shots - 11 jams, all 11 jams were different, each one a scratch your head type of jam.

Remake of the 97 - 20 shots - 14 jams. This was just sickening.

Browning - 20 shots - 1 jam, I believe this jam was my fault as I was not used to the slide on the Browning, it had an odd pre-travel that cause me to pause and I think the pause caused the jam.

All firearms were cleaned and checked prior to shooting. Most of the jams were feed ramp stoves. On the 97 remake the jams were two rounds at a time.

They were #7.5 shot.

So we tried the mod 37 two more sets of 20 rounds, no Jams. On the sencond set we even roughed up the crown of the shells a lil and allowed the butt to hit some carpet to jostle them. All fed and the pattern at 20 feet full was just over a dinner plate size.

In the Mod 37, it patterned on clays and always broke them with these lil rounds.

So, the intitial conclusion is......... I am keeping the Mod 37 in the bedroom with 10 in the tube and one in the chamber meant for 5 and one in the chamber.

I ordered another 200 rounds and will do extensive tests with the 37 and the Win.

So far, I am imp[ressed with the rounds ability. It worked almost like a hot knife in butter on a double, super low recoil and ejected just fine. Even the 12 year old grand niece though it was very fun (out of a youth rossie) as the shells were easy to handle in her smaller hands.

All felt recoil was significantly lower than 2 3/4 rounds out of each shotgun.

These rounds are a keeper. But truly need the right piece. For us it was the Mod 37. If function right side up, upside down, side ways and upsidedown over the head.

Hope this helps.

feel free to ask questions on what we did and how.

Regards,
Mike Cleveland, Ohio
 
So, the intitial conclusion is......... I am keeping the Mod 37 in the bedroom with 10 in the tube and one in the chamber meant for 5 and one in the chamber.
Click to expand...

Uh, Ithaca model 37 was designed for 4 in the magazine. Are we talking about the same gun? How many mini-shells can you get down the tube? Why not put a 2 3/4" or 3" shell in the chamber?
 
Cannot say about other Mod 37's, but this one is 5 in the tube and one in the cham of 2 3/4. It does not look modified, but who knows, I got it used many years back.

As for 2 3/4 in the chamber and the rest mini shells in the tube, never thought about it. I guess I am kind of like Monk, must have order and conformity or my space/time continum gets out of whack.

We were able to get 9 mini shells into the Mod 37 tube, not 10, it was 10 total. Plus we even mixed the shells in the tube with 2 3/4, mini's, and still no jams.

I could honestly see a pocket full of these shells and a double SxS or O/U in the field as being a very pleasent day. The shells themselves are very easy to handle.

we are waiting for the pre factory built mod kits for the rem 870 and the Mos 500 and we will try it again on those when those mods are done, the home made mod worked on the mos.

One main benefit of these shells in a double or single is that the kids can also shoot it w/o fear, the recoil is less. My Grand Niece was hitting clays very shortly after being trained on how to do so. She tried 2 3/4 target loads and she did not like it. These mini's afforded her the pleasure of accurate shots w/o the shoulder being out of whack. Same would be for home defense, her confidence in being able to fire these rounds would allow her to concentrait on the task at hand if god forbid it was ever necessary.

All in all, I like these lil rounds. Now that we have a piece that reliably handles them, I am happy with them.

One thing though... these results were on OUR pieces, in OUR conditions and environment. These tests were not done scientifically and the results can only be a small factor in choosing them or not. You would have to conduct your own tests to figure out if you trust them or not.

We did two more tests with the rounds we had left, one on a tube fed bolt shotgun and one on a lever gun. Both of those worked well. The lever gun was a Savage built SEARS model. The bolt was a Moss.

We fired three rounds through a Franchi 12 as well, AUTO and believe it or not, the piece functioned perfectly with no jams and ejected fine, but I doubt these would cycle many other auto's.

Have a great day to all

Regards,
Mike
 
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