12 gauge .690 pumpkin ball
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Iroquois
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I have shot a 16 gauge pump with a “pumpkin ball” back in the 70’s. If IRC I couldn’t hit a 5 gallon bucket at 50 yards. After that I went out and bought a .30-30.
With all the new shotgun slug technology in 12 and 20 gauge and the availability of many manufactures of shotgun rifled barrels my question to you is, why would you use a “pumpkin ball”?
Could you explain in more detail what your intent is?
With all the new shotgun slug technology in 12 and 20 gauge and the availability of many manufactures of shotgun rifled barrels my question to you is, why would you use a “pumpkin ball”?
Could you explain in more detail what your intent is?
Armored farmer
Member
I am curious about shooting them in my sxs percussion.
What's the problem...?
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...RB-success-!&p=4176165&viewfull=1#post4176165
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/sho...RB-success-!&p=4176165&viewfull=1#post4176165
Mr. Standfast
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The problem is stopping them from rolling in the bore, or bouncing from side to side - and possibly worst of all, stopping the from bouncing when the travel along one side and hit the choke. Some very knowledgeable people report results about as good as you can get with more sophisticated slugs - although anything without real rifling in the bore is likely to give a 100 yard group much more than twice as big as at 50.
.690 sounds like a bad size for a breech-loading 12ga. It is too small to fit the bore on its own, forming a very short cylindrical section at its waist (which will lead eventually, but how much practice does this sort of shooting take, and how many deer does it take to make your day? But it is also too small to fit in most shot-cup wads without the risk of excessive pressure or cutting off one or more of the wad petals.
It might work fine in a muzzle loader, in a lubed cloth patch of the right thickness. It won't be as sensitive as a rifle to wrinkles in the patch moving the bullet off-centre in the bore. That is probably the way hunters, woodsmen and Indians loaded muskets, while line infantrymen couldn't afford to lose the speed of loading of a looser ball.
.690 sounds like a bad size for a breech-loading 12ga. It is too small to fit the bore on its own, forming a very short cylindrical section at its waist (which will lead eventually, but how much practice does this sort of shooting take, and how many deer does it take to make your day? But it is also too small to fit in most shot-cup wads without the risk of excessive pressure or cutting off one or more of the wad petals.
It might work fine in a muzzle loader, in a lubed cloth patch of the right thickness. It won't be as sensitive as a rifle to wrinkles in the patch moving the bullet off-centre in the bore. That is probably the way hunters, woodsmen and Indians loaded muskets, while line infantrymen couldn't afford to lose the speed of loading of a looser ball.
Jason_W
Member
I’ve tried these
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/m...gs-12ga-715-550gr-25_pak/productinfo/7000004/
Through a Benelli nova tactical with gr sights and an ic choke. Accuracy wasn’t amazing, but at 50 yards all shots stayed inside a deer vital sized target.
It was an interesting handloading experiment, but at the end of the day, it’s hard to beat what brennekke slugs can do in terms of both accuracy and penetration.
I could see home cast round balls as for cheap, close range blasting fun, though.
https://www.ballisticproducts.com/m...gs-12ga-715-550gr-25_pak/productinfo/7000004/
Through a Benelli nova tactical with gr sights and an ic choke. Accuracy wasn’t amazing, but at 50 yards all shots stayed inside a deer vital sized target.
It was an interesting handloading experiment, but at the end of the day, it’s hard to beat what brennekke slugs can do in terms of both accuracy and penetration.
I could see home cast round balls as for cheap, close range blasting fun, though.
Back when everything I shot ate black powder I fooled around with round balls out of several shotguns. .690 dia with a mattress ticking patch worked in my Navy Arms "magnum", but the balls crossed somewhere around fifty yards and didn't group better than six or so inches per barrel....Two barrels, two different six inch groups with varying degrees of overlap. I got a Lyman 12 gauge Foster slug mould and patched the slugs with thin linen or muslin, even tried paper and groups shrunk a little but the disparity of poi didn't improve.
IIRC, the left was more on so the few times I hunted with it a slug was in that side. You do have to check that the slug didn't move forward under recoil after firing the first barrel, whether with shot or ball. I shot some round and minie balls from a 20 gauge Savage 24 but they had to be under the choke size so weren't accurate either.
If you have a cylinder bore barrel you might choose a ball size that would be a tight fit in a plastic wad, probably need some 20 gauge cards under the ball to fill it enough for a crimp.
IIRC, the left was more on so the few times I hunted with it a slug was in that side. You do have to check that the slug didn't move forward under recoil after firing the first barrel, whether with shot or ball. I shot some round and minie balls from a 20 gauge Savage 24 but they had to be under the choke size so weren't accurate either.
If you have a cylinder bore barrel you might choose a ball size that would be a tight fit in a plastic wad, probably need some 20 gauge cards under the ball to fill it enough for a crimp.
Ironhand54
Member
The size of ball you use is dependent on the size of the choke in the barrels. 690 is undersized for a 12 gauge bore. It is a common size for patched ball in a muzzle loader.
Your best bet is probably to load a thick cushion wad under a near choke diameter ball . That is what has always worked best for me in muzzleloading shotguns.
IronHand
Your best bet is probably to load a thick cushion wad under a near choke diameter ball . That is what has always worked best for me in muzzleloading shotguns.
IronHand
I use to hunt and shoot in matches a .715 RB in my muzzle loader without any patch. I'd load it like I was using shot - Powder, card, drop the ball down the barrel and use one more card to hold it in place. Any pressure blowing by the card will keep the ball centered in the bore. At one 25yd match I had a 48/50 and won it. You didn't say if you're using a MLer or cartilage gun. If you use a shell just make sure the ball will go through there the choke is.
Officers'Wife
Member
Somehow, I'm reminded too much of Gilbert and Sullivan – "let the punishment fit the crime tra la, but the punishment fit the crime."
If you are going to use solid ball out of the muzzleloader, why not just get a rifle board for the ball? Years ago, my uncle made a double barreled caplock rifle in 75 caliber. The thing has 54 inch barrels that are sighted for impact at 75 yards. My husband has been using it to hunt deer ever since he shamelessly stole it from me after his discharge. He could easily use the flintlock 12gauge but would it have the accuracy not to mention the energy potential of that gawd-awful heavy rifle?
If you are going to use solid ball out of the muzzleloader, why not just get a rifle board for the ball? Years ago, my uncle made a double barreled caplock rifle in 75 caliber. The thing has 54 inch barrels that are sighted for impact at 75 yards. My husband has been using it to hunt deer ever since he shamelessly stole it from me after his discharge. He could easily use the flintlock 12gauge but would it have the accuracy not to mention the energy potential of that gawd-awful heavy rifle?
Ironhand54
Member
Four reasons to use a smoothbore instead of a rifle
1. The challenge. It is harder and therefore a more satisfying accomplishment.
2. Many BP competitions have smoothbore only matches. No rifles allowed.
3. Versatility. The same gun can be loaded with shot or ball as needed.
4. It's what you got.
I have hunted deer successfully with a 20 gauge trade gun. You just have to know and accept the limitations of the gun.
IronHand
AJumbo
Member
I have a Beretta ML over-under. I'm lucky that the two barrels seem to converge at about 50 yards, but it doesn't always work that way for every gun. I played with some RB loads with charges ranging from 55 to 90 grains; at 90, the ball would go through three 2x6s and lodge in the fourth. The recall wasn't worse than a one ounce shot load with the same powder charge, and the combined group would stay well within a deer's boiler room. I think if the gun had widely varying POIs between the two barrels and I wanted to hunt with it, I'd pick one barrel for the ball load and work up a 00 bunk load for the other.
Mr. Standfast
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Powder charge weight doesn't have that much effect on the barrel regulation of a double, any more than on the height of impact of a revolver. Make the gun recoil or flex its barrel more that way, and you make the bullet exit before it has done as much of it. It is bullet weight that controls where the barrels converge, and one big snag about a round ball is that you can't alter the weight by much. One possibility, if the diameter is large enough not to care about expansion, would be to cast bullets from scrap zinc alloy.
To do the opposite you could, in theory, back up the ball with a considerable weight of dust shot, the smallest so that it won't carry far. But close shots do sometimes occur in woodland, and I think there would be an unacceptable chance of sending a deer off blinded, although untouched by anything larger.
Power charge does make a difference, the same as bullet weight makes a difference. If you've ever owned a old double barrel British rifle in the hard case they're stored in are the load instructions. Each one was regulated for a certain bullet weight and powder charge. Change either one and you're in trouble. I use to shoot " Trade Gun " events - no rear sight, flintlock smoothbore. We got pretty good with them out to 50 yards. I feel the smoothbore is the best all around long gun - shot or ball can be used. My 12ga flint smoothbore uses a .715 RB, no patch, just a OP wad, ball and OS wad. My home made matchlock uses a .715 patched RB. I've shot deer with both, and they don't go anywhere when a 715 RB hits them. With the flint I've also got pheasant and grouse with bird shot.
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