Howdy was wondering if anyone who has been reloading a good while would know the answer. I wanted to start reloading Winchester AA 2 3/4 for trap and had a question about powders. I am reloading 12g with WAA 12 wads, 1 1/8 oz. #8 shot, CCI 209M primers, and I wanted to start using Alliant e3 powder for around 1200 fps. I seen they have recipe for Red Dot but only place around here that sells it was sold out and guy told me to use e3 and to back off the grains a bit. Their book has the recipe with Red Dot at 18.5 grains for 1300fps. I was wondering how many grains would be sufficient of e3 to get close to 1200 fps as possible. I tried calling Alliant 4 times and keep getting answering machine for there customer rep and sent 3 emails and got no response. Thank you for any help is appreciated.
12g reloading powder question.
- Thread starter kayote
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Longhorn 76
Member
I do not mind changing cComponants in brass reloading, but for shotgun, I don't substitute Anything.
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
Never 'back off the grains a bit' using different powder!!!
Alliant online data shows you what you need to know for e3 powder in AA hulls..
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...eightdis=1+1/8&shellid=493>ypeid=3&gauge=12
rc
Alliant online data shows you what you need to know for e3 powder in AA hulls..
http://www.alliantpowder.com/reload...eightdis=1+1/8&shellid=493>ypeid=3&gauge=12
rc
rfwobbly
Member
Friend -
You obviously need to buy and read the Lyman #5 shotshell reloading manual. Easy to find, and a very informative read.
Unlike metallic reloading, you do not substitute, tweak, or change components in any way shape or form from the published shotshell load. There are lots of loads in the Lyman manual, and all the powder companies have them on-line.
1-1/8 sounds rather excessive for trap. Most people I know are reloading shotshell in order to shoot 7/8oz and 3/4oz loads in 12ga.
Pick your hull and powder, then use the published load.
You obviously need to buy and read the Lyman #5 shotshell reloading manual. Easy to find, and a very informative read.
Unlike metallic reloading, you do not substitute, tweak, or change components in any way shape or form from the published shotshell load. There are lots of loads in the Lyman manual, and all the powder companies have them on-line.
1-1/8 sounds rather excessive for trap. Most people I know are reloading shotshell in order to shoot 7/8oz and 3/4oz loads in 12ga.
Pick your hull and powder, then use the published load.
gamestalker
member
There is an absolute abundance of published shot shell data available, and it's very easy to find. Shot shell components must always be matched. Please don't take unnecessary risks with this hobby that could cost you life or limb, it just isn't worth it!
GS
GS
Tolkachi Robotnik
Member
rcmodel has the goods.
Unfortunately CCI 209M is not listed with e3, as I read down the file listed by rcmodel. Welcome to The High Road. I find the same thing, when I look around with what I have and what I want to do often my components don't quite match and I have to change primers or something in the mix. It is true there is no working up of shotgun loads. Some will give data with ranges and you know what you get as you move up in powder, usually a few fps and a lot more pressure.
This component matching was not such a big deal before you couldn't hardly find anything specific in the LGS.
Unfortunately CCI 209M is not listed with e3, as I read down the file listed by rcmodel. Welcome to The High Road. I find the same thing, when I look around with what I have and what I want to do often my components don't quite match and I have to change primers or something in the mix. It is true there is no working up of shotgun loads. Some will give data with ranges and you know what you get as you move up in powder, usually a few fps and a lot more pressure.
This component matching was not such a big deal before you couldn't hardly find anything specific in the LGS.
Thank you. I have a few reloading manuals at my disposal mainly using Alliant's guide atm. They gave me recipe I was looking for but a little two hot for my liking so I went out on a hunt for some red dot. Only one little store had it so I got last bottle they had and everyone else was sold out or backordered. As for 1 1/8th being a bit big for trap most everyone in our league uses 1 1/8th or 1oz very few use anything lower. Thank you for help.
oneounceload
member
Lose the 209M primers for one thing, find a nice 1 oz load and follow the recipe as found on either the Alliant site or Hodgdon's. Books like Lyman are out of date before they printed - the powder makers' have their liable butts on the line
Yes, components CAN be interchanged - and safely - but not EVERY one can.
Win 209s can be interchanged with Nobels, Fiocchi 616, and a few others, but NOT 209M from CCI.
Win AA wads can be easily subbed for less cost with equal clones from ClayBuster and DownRange.
All Remington hulls can be used with the same data, not all Winchesters can; and Federals are a whole 'nother ball game entirely
Promo uses Red Dot data and costs less. DO not listen to the store guy - you do NOT "back off a few grains" this is NOT metallic, you do NOT work up a load. You do not have to worry about small powder differences like you do in pistol, but you do need to drop as close as possible. Using the wrong data can lead to pressure spikes that you or your gun would not like.
Want to save some money? Drop your shot charge to 7/8oz and get several more boxes from a bag of shot AND save your shoulder the unnecessary pounding. International trap targets are faster and physically harder to withstand the speed and are shot with a 24 gm load, which is right at 7/8
Yes, components CAN be interchanged - and safely - but not EVERY one can.
Win 209s can be interchanged with Nobels, Fiocchi 616, and a few others, but NOT 209M from CCI.
Win AA wads can be easily subbed for less cost with equal clones from ClayBuster and DownRange.
All Remington hulls can be used with the same data, not all Winchesters can; and Federals are a whole 'nother ball game entirely
Promo uses Red Dot data and costs less. DO not listen to the store guy - you do NOT "back off a few grains" this is NOT metallic, you do NOT work up a load. You do not have to worry about small powder differences like you do in pistol, but you do need to drop as close as possible. Using the wrong data can lead to pressure spikes that you or your gun would not like.
Want to save some money? Drop your shot charge to 7/8oz and get several more boxes from a bag of shot AND save your shoulder the unnecessary pounding. International trap targets are faster and physically harder to withstand the speed and are shot with a 24 gm load, which is right at 7/8
243winxb
Member
12ga. 2 3/4" Win AA Plastic shells, with WAA 12 wads, 1 1/8 oz. #8 shot, Win 209 primers, Alliant e3 powder-17.0gr for 1200 fps- 10,450 PSI. Or 15.0 gr - 1090 fps Or 16.0 gr - 1145 fps. Data from Alliant powder guide 2013. Guide free from Alliant on there website.
oneounceload
member
10,450 psi is pushing at the 11,000-11,500 limit for 12 gauge - a slight powder bump would be starting to push that into an area I would not subject my guns to, so he needs to be wary of that. Of course, backing off the shot charge, even 1/8 oz, will help
243winxb
Member
AS oneounceload said, this is the maximum loading with these components. 17.0gr for 1200 fps- 10,450 PSI.
oneounceload
member
Unless your powder is from 2004, this is NOT wise to do. Powder makers update their formulae all the time and change their data accordingly. Do NOT use old data with new powder, especially when the current data is a mouse click away
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