Rob96
Member
In an urban SHTF scenario, which are you more likely to go for?
12gauge or AR
- Thread starter Rob96
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jrpeterman
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Total urban unrest, 911 not responding, and no police, Nat'l Guard to preserve the peace in the community, I would choose an AR-15 hands down over a shotgun. The AR-15 is more versatile when confronted by an angry mob IMO.
TheOtherOne
Member
I'll take a 12 guage with plenty of buckshot. I think it's much more effective at the closer ranges in an urban environment.
KRAUTGUNNER
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A 12 gauge street-sweeper is great medicine for a bloodthirsty mob in the streets. 
only1asterisk
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Tough call, 12 ammo is heavy and range is limited, but that is what gut tells me. I can carry 4-5 rounds of 5.56 to 1 of 12 ga, make hits 4 times farther downrange, and change mags in about the same time as it takes load a single shotgun round.
I guess it would depend on the situation and rather I was going to hunker down or try to leave town.
David
I guess it would depend on the situation and rather I was going to hunker down or try to leave town.
David
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Gocart
Member
AR15 hands down. Versatility. Extended range. Ammo capacity.
Ala Dan
Member in memoriam
12 gague, so I can take out more than one mobster
at a time!
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
at a time!
Best Wishes,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
armabill
Member
AR has a larger magazine capacity. Extended range, if needed, and better handling/control capabilites.
one-shot-one
Member
defensive/surv. only 12 ga.
any chance of going on the offensive .223
any chance of going on the offensive .223
Pumpkinheaver
Member
Either will work but I'd opt for the AR.
armabill
Member
I go with the shotgun for indoor protection and the AR for outdoor.
Horsesense
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The AR may have some advantages in situations where you will have to travel along way.
For the caust of one AR, I could get an 870, buck & slug ammo, packs, cloths, water purification tablets etc etc. for three people, and have enough $$ left over to get a military surplus bolt action and an SKS and ammo for practicing.
I'm not knocking anyone's choice, just pointing out for the same money, you can get pretty dang tactical.
For the caust of one AR, I could get an 870, buck & slug ammo, packs, cloths, water purification tablets etc etc. for three people, and have enough $$ left over to get a military surplus bolt action and an SKS and ammo for practicing.
I'm not knocking anyone's choice, just pointing out for the same money, you can get pretty dang tactical.
synoptic
Member
12 guage. Its ammo possibilities are endless... Flechette, bird shot, buck shot, slugs, flamethrower, bird bombs, flares, etc... Each of these may come in handy in the different situations you encounter. While each gun should be taken good care of and cleaned regularly, I would trust the shotgun to function more reliably if it had to go a few days before cleaning. Lastly, If I needed to do some long range shooting, or decided to go on the offensive, why not just kill someone and take their AR or AK or whichever gun was best suited to the task?
I'd go shottie for several reasons in the urban enivronment, though I'd hasten to add that my wife would be caddying the shotgun, and I'd be toting a Garand for range and penetration.
The shotgun is a better CQB weapon IMO for urban an indoor environments than most rifles.
12ga. ammunition in this country is more universal than even .223/5.56 is.
100 yard range with slugs, about the maximum contact distance one would contemplate in most urban areas.
Easier for non-shooters to use if you need a quick ally. Most novices simply can't shoot a rifle or a handgun worth a damn, but a shotgun they only need point in the general direction depending on the choke/load/distance.
In this scenario, which sounds like the old song of social breakdown, one should be playing defense rather than offense, and a shotgun is more versatile in the role of static defense, particularly against mobs/multiple assailants, especially stacked up against a non-burst firing AR, especially the shorter ones which provide marginal terminal ballistics.
The shotgun is a better CQB weapon IMO for urban an indoor environments than most rifles.
12ga. ammunition in this country is more universal than even .223/5.56 is.
100 yard range with slugs, about the maximum contact distance one would contemplate in most urban areas.
Easier for non-shooters to use if you need a quick ally. Most novices simply can't shoot a rifle or a handgun worth a damn, but a shotgun they only need point in the general direction depending on the choke/load/distance.
In this scenario, which sounds like the old song of social breakdown, one should be playing defense rather than offense, and a shotgun is more versatile in the role of static defense, particularly against mobs/multiple assailants, especially stacked up against a non-burst firing AR, especially the shorter ones which provide marginal terminal ballistics.
popeye
Member
12 guage ..... Probably every 3rd house has some type of shells to scavenge. Limited cleaning necessary.
Edward429451
member
Ditto.
Or the M1A so I can take out more than one mobster at a time (if they're lined up in a doorway/hallway!) or behind cover...
There is only one civilized solution.
Why a Shotgun
Power: A 12 gauge slug has as much energy at 100 yards as an AR15 does at the muzzle. Most of the urban area engagements will be at 50 yards or less. If there are threats greater than 150 yards, you should be fleeing/avoiding them, not attacking. A .223 isn't suitable for deer, and there have been multiple reports of troops needing to shoot targets 2-3 times to drop them with the AR. A shotgun, on the other hand, can take down 2 or MORE badguys with ONE shot! There have been reports of people killing two, and sometimes three perps with one shot of buck or shot.
Reliability: Pump shotguns are about as reliable as reliable can be, and can take untold abuse and still function and fire perfectly. The AR 15, on the other hand, has a horrid reputation for reliability and dependability. It defecates where it eats and fouls up easily, often jamming and malfunctioning, especially in dirty environments. In a combat and evasive situation, you may not always have the time to clean your weapon every other hour, like the AR requires.
Versatility: Shotgun can handle anything from varmints and pests to rioting mobs and out of space monsters by simply switching the choice of ammo. Birdshot, to buckshot, to slugs. Also, one can find 12 gauge ammo just about anywhere, even in the big city at places like Wal-Mart. .223 ammo, while fairly common, would not be common enough in an anti gun urban environment like New York City. Unless you expect to raid a police station or an X military base, do you really expect to find .223 ammo around the city? For one, in many cities it is illegal to own such a rifle, and #2, because of their scarcity due to anti gun laws and general liberal atmosphere, not many stores will offer .223 ammo due to lack of demand. However, by contrast many people in big cities who do, or can, own guns have shotguns.
Why a Shotgun
Power: A 12 gauge slug has as much energy at 100 yards as an AR15 does at the muzzle. Most of the urban area engagements will be at 50 yards or less. If there are threats greater than 150 yards, you should be fleeing/avoiding them, not attacking. A .223 isn't suitable for deer, and there have been multiple reports of troops needing to shoot targets 2-3 times to drop them with the AR. A shotgun, on the other hand, can take down 2 or MORE badguys with ONE shot! There have been reports of people killing two, and sometimes three perps with one shot of buck or shot.
Reliability: Pump shotguns are about as reliable as reliable can be, and can take untold abuse and still function and fire perfectly. The AR 15, on the other hand, has a horrid reputation for reliability and dependability. It defecates where it eats and fouls up easily, often jamming and malfunctioning, especially in dirty environments. In a combat and evasive situation, you may not always have the time to clean your weapon every other hour, like the AR requires.
Versatility: Shotgun can handle anything from varmints and pests to rioting mobs and out of space monsters by simply switching the choice of ammo. Birdshot, to buckshot, to slugs. Also, one can find 12 gauge ammo just about anywhere, even in the big city at places like Wal-Mart. .223 ammo, while fairly common, would not be common enough in an anti gun urban environment like New York City. Unless you expect to raid a police station or an X military base, do you really expect to find .223 ammo around the city? For one, in many cities it is illegal to own such a rifle, and #2, because of their scarcity due to anti gun laws and general liberal atmosphere, not many stores will offer .223 ammo due to lack of demand. However, by contrast many people in big cities who do, or can, own guns have shotguns.
cool45auto
Member
I'd take the shotgun, too.
Captain Scarlet
Member
my 1st choice is an AR
the AR15 could be used for a lot of different situations, the shotgun is much
more limited to close range or defense situations.
The AR has more precision and can deliver a lot more firepower and hit
multiple attackers more efficiently than a shotgun.
the AR15 could be used for a lot of different situations, the shotgun is much
more limited to close range or defense situations.
The AR has more precision and can deliver a lot more firepower and hit
multiple attackers more efficiently than a shotgun.
NorthernExtreme
Member
Keep the Shotgun at home. If going out the AR.
If avg. range is insite of 45 yards with some out to 130 yards I'll go with the 12 ga.
If the avg. range is 45 + i'll take the AR. I live in Alaska and the Avg. range is 45+ yards, so I think the AR is better for me. I also think my FAL or M1 is better than my AR.
If avg. range is insite of 45 yards with some out to 130 yards I'll go with the 12 ga.
If the avg. range is 45 + i'll take the AR. I live in Alaska and the Avg. range is 45+ yards, so I think the AR is better for me. I also think my FAL or M1 is better than my AR.
armabill
Member
This should have been a poll also. Very interesting answers here.
glocksman
Member
Why limit it to an AR or 12 gauge?
Why not an AK clone?
For the cost of one decent AR, I can buy a quality AK, a bunch of magazines, and 1000 rounds of ammo.
Why not an AK clone?
For the cost of one decent AR, I can buy a quality AK, a bunch of magazines, and 1000 rounds of ammo.
armabill
Member
There is a compromise. Savage has or use to have a rifle/shotgun o/u combo.
I think that it is a .223/12 ga., both single shot.
I think that it is a .223/12 ga., both single shot.
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