135 GR. Gold Dot's?
- Thread starter steelhead
- Start date
- Status
TonyB
Member
Paging Jim March.........
RON in PA
Member
I have gone to this load for my snubbies, but continue to use the 158 grain lead hollowpoint SWC "FBI" load for my 3 and 4 inch guns.
If you go to the CCI Speer website there is a downloadable pdf file on the 135 gr Gold Dot load that includes penetration and expansion data in ballistic gelatin. CCI claims that the load was developed to meet the FBI criteria for handgun loads.
One question that I do have is how the load performs from a 4" barrel, will the added velocity cause such rapid expansion that penetration is compromised.
If you go to the CCI Speer website there is a downloadable pdf file on the 135 gr Gold Dot load that includes penetration and expansion data in ballistic gelatin. CCI claims that the load was developed to meet the FBI criteria for handgun loads.
One question that I do have is how the load performs from a 4" barrel, will the added velocity cause such rapid expansion that penetration is compromised.
Jim March
Member
All we STILL have are the initial factory tests and VERY sketchy and informal reports of some gelatin tests.
Ammolabs has apparantly gone down, so there's been no data out of them. Firearmstactical.com hasn't touched on 'em that I've seen.
Very frustrating. They are PROBABLY very good stuff but I'd base that mostly on the fact that the Speer 125gr +P 38s worked pretty well, and Speer claims the 135s are an improvement. Across all calibers, Speer has shown a LOT of technical competence in projectile development.
So I'm inclined to take the factory data at face value.
Soon as I can find some I'll test 'em in my own snubby for accuracy before loading them as home defense slugs.
Ammolabs has apparantly gone down, so there's been no data out of them. Firearmstactical.com hasn't touched on 'em that I've seen.
Very frustrating. They are PROBABLY very good stuff but I'd base that mostly on the fact that the Speer 125gr +P 38s worked pretty well, and Speer claims the 135s are an improvement. Across all calibers, Speer has shown a LOT of technical competence in projectile development.
So I'm inclined to take the factory data at face value.
Soon as I can find some I'll test 'em in my own snubby for accuracy before loading them as home defense slugs.
DMK
Member
If you do a search, Snowdog did a playdough test with a snubbie maybe a few months back. The results looked pretty impressive to me.
I carry them in my 642. They shoot well, don't seem to recoil any more than the 125gr, and are at least as accurate as I can get with the gun.
I carry them in my 642. They shoot well, don't seem to recoil any more than the 125gr, and are at least as accurate as I can get with the gun.
June 2004 Combat Handguns
out of a m638
(both smiths 2" i believe)
magazine test results
.587" expan in bare gel
.574" expan in clothed gel
11.5" pen for both
878 fps
CCI's results out of a m640
11inch pen
.576 bare gel
.577 clothed gel
864 fps
damn impressive and consistent for 2" performance i think.
My vote is for the "fbi load" out of 4" bbls, this gold dot load for 2" carry, and maybe corbons new dpx round for winter carry
out of a m638
(both smiths 2" i believe)
magazine test results
.587" expan in bare gel
.574" expan in clothed gel
11.5" pen for both
878 fps
CCI's results out of a m640
11inch pen
.576 bare gel
.577 clothed gel
864 fps
damn impressive and consistent for 2" performance i think.
My vote is for the "fbi load" out of 4" bbls, this gold dot load for 2" carry, and maybe corbons new dpx round for winter carry
QuarterBoreGunner
Member
I'm with Jim on this one...up to a point. The new 135s *look* good, but I'd like to see more empirical data...until then I'll stick with my old school 'FBI/metro load' 158grn LSWCHP +Ps... yeah they hurt out of a Airweight Smith...but who cares about your palm stingin' when the balloon goes up?
Jim March
Member
There's nothing at all wrong with the 158grn LSWCHP +Ps. Damn fine load, if you avoid old-stock Federal plain leads or nyclad. Winchester or Remmie are good, or old stock Cor-Bon or Bufallo Bore are wonderfully hot - the latter two are for strong steel guns such as recent-vintage steel S&W snubs, the SP101, etc.
Only one small issue: the "shoulder" on the Keith-profile projectile can hang up speedloading. A lot of people load the 158s "first at bat" and then keep speedloaders of something else available, with the 135s a top contender. Other good ones: the 125 Speers or the Winchester 130 Supreme.
Oh, and the Cor-Bon 110s and 125s are also hotter than hell, "for strong 38s or 357 guns only" in my opinion.
To be clear: I own a vintage Charter Arms 38Spl snubbie. I think it's about the same in terms of strength as a '70s vintage steel S&W snubbie or a Colt Dick Special. I'll run mild amounts of the Winchester or Remington 158+P lead loads, the Speer 125s and 135s and the Winchester 130. I will shoot NO Cor-Bon 38+P at all, or any Bufallo Bore 38+P.
I do the vast amount of my practice with standard pressure lead (148s when possible, usually 158s), and a little bit of standard pressure 130 hardball.
That's my personal *opinion* as to how I'll treat *my* gun, which is accurate and has a tight lockup I don't want to lose.
What else...any lead +P round should be checked for "pulling" in any lightweight gun of 15oz or less. My Charter is 17oz and works fine with Remmie/Win 158+Ps. But lead is slick - once you get into Scandiums of 13oz or less, "pulling" becomes more likely and is probably certain in the S&W 10.5oz 38Snub. Speer says their 135 was designed to resist "pulling" (recoil yanking rounds from their shells) and should be considered over the lead 158+Ps in "superfeatherweights".
Only one small issue: the "shoulder" on the Keith-profile projectile can hang up speedloading. A lot of people load the 158s "first at bat" and then keep speedloaders of something else available, with the 135s a top contender. Other good ones: the 125 Speers or the Winchester 130 Supreme.
Oh, and the Cor-Bon 110s and 125s are also hotter than hell, "for strong 38s or 357 guns only" in my opinion.
To be clear: I own a vintage Charter Arms 38Spl snubbie. I think it's about the same in terms of strength as a '70s vintage steel S&W snubbie or a Colt Dick Special. I'll run mild amounts of the Winchester or Remington 158+P lead loads, the Speer 125s and 135s and the Winchester 130. I will shoot NO Cor-Bon 38+P at all, or any Bufallo Bore 38+P.
I do the vast amount of my practice with standard pressure lead (148s when possible, usually 158s), and a little bit of standard pressure 130 hardball.
That's my personal *opinion* as to how I'll treat *my* gun, which is accurate and has a tight lockup I don't want to lose.
What else...any lead +P round should be checked for "pulling" in any lightweight gun of 15oz or less. My Charter is 17oz and works fine with Remmie/Win 158+Ps. But lead is slick - once you get into Scandiums of 13oz or less, "pulling" becomes more likely and is probably certain in the S&W 10.5oz 38Snub. Speer says their 135 was designed to resist "pulling" (recoil yanking rounds from their shells) and should be considered over the lead 158+Ps in "superfeatherweights".
TonyB
Member
Glad to hear that the speer 125's are good too..I CAN get those around here.....
QuarterBoreGunner
Member
Thankfully I've never had a problem with the 158s "pulling" aka "bullet jump". And I'm a big enough baby that the 15oz. 637 is more than enough for me with the 158 +Ps...10oz.? Uh uh; I may decide to take up the piano someday
Jim March
Member
Dude, I'm with you: the 15oz class is where your S&W is at or some of the Taurus TI snubbies in the same weight range are as light as I'd go. Mine is 17oz and that's getting close to the controllable limit.
I recommend you treat your S&W about like I treat my Charter, although your gun is maybe a bit tougher than mine. Maybe.
Yes, S&W has a Scandium S&W that's 38spl only at 10.5oz, and there's the infamous 12.5oz 357. I think both are psycho.
Good to hear that your 158+P leads aren't pulling in a 15oz gun. Which one do you use?
I recommend you treat your S&W about like I treat my Charter, although your gun is maybe a bit tougher than mine. Maybe
.Yes, S&W has a Scandium S&W that's 38spl only at 10.5oz, and there's the infamous 12.5oz 357
. I think both are psycho.Good to hear that your 158+P leads aren't pulling in a 15oz gun. Which one do you use?
QuarterBoreGunner
Member
I'm hoarding my last two boxes of Remington 158 +Ps.
I practice with the Winnie white box (well now the box is silver...) 158 LSWCHP +P, PN #X38SPD. I think this is their 'value line' SD load, so it's my practice choice.
I just checked my safe again; I have a full/NOS box of the Winchester .38 110grn +P+ "LEO Only" ammo; PN# RA38110HP+...can't remember where I got that from. Whatever. My only dedicated defense .38 is the 2" 637 and I'm not shooting 110 +P+ out of it; can you you say baby rattle? Yeah well I think that's what I would have after awhile.
I guess I'll keep it as a curiousity.
I practice with the Winnie white box (well now the box is silver...) 158 LSWCHP +P, PN #X38SPD. I think this is their 'value line' SD load, so it's my practice choice.
I just checked my safe again; I have a full/NOS box of the Winchester .38 110grn +P+ "LEO Only" ammo; PN# RA38110HP+...can't remember where I got that from. Whatever. My only dedicated defense .38 is the 2" 637 and I'm not shooting 110 +P+ out of it; can you you say baby rattle? Yeah well I think that's what I would have after awhile.
I guess I'll keep it as a curiousity.
Jim March
Member
YUP! "+P+" was a method developed for police to lie on the witness stand: "no, jury, we don't use evil baby-killing 357*MAGNUM* ammo, that's inhumane, we use nice mild 38special invented in 1897..."
Not mentioning that it's "+P+ police grade" which SHOULD be marked "357" 'cuz that's how hot it is...
Yes, I'm serious. Maybe not ALL "+P+ police-issue" is that hot but a hell of a lot of it is, and should be used only in 357Magnum guns or guns that are 100% as strong (such as a 38Spl Ruger GP/SP/SSix series that was done as a 38 for foreign or police markets).
Not mentioning that it's "+P+ police grade" which SHOULD be marked "357" 'cuz that's how hot it is...
Yes, I'm serious. Maybe not ALL "+P+ police-issue" is that hot but a hell of a lot of it is, and should be used only in 357Magnum guns or guns that are 100% as strong (such as a 38Spl Ruger GP/SP/SSix series that was done as a 38 for foreign or police markets).
TonyB
Member
Yeah,I use 110 gr.38+p+ for my carry load now(I have exactly 18 rounds left of this stuff and my source for these has dried up)and they are pretty hot...like a light 357 magnum.I like them though in my SP101 and am always on the look out for more...
- Status
