13th Deer.

[Blackfork]

Still shooting doetags until the end of the month. This evening a little after six I shot a nice 110 lb doe with an Argentine 1891 7.65 Cavalry Mauser. She ran about 40 yards before falling in the food plot. She was the 13th deer we have killed there since Oct. I was shooting Sierra 120 Gamekings in a Norma case with 44 grains of Varget. The bullet went through both lungs from side to side and exited. I was by myself and it took two hours to get her out of the field and into a cooler, close up the hunting cabin and get on the road. I put two bags of ice into the cooler with her.

Rifle list this year:

1903A3 30-06 Springfield.

P17 Eddystone 30-06.

1898 Krag 30-40.

1937 K98 Mauser 8mm.

Argentine 1891 7.65 Cavalry Mauser.

It's been slow hunting with the abundant acorn crop this year. Deer this weekend were moving 9-12:00am and then right around dusk. The night before I saw nine bucks in a big bachelor herd at sunset. This morning I saw a doe with white markings that I never shoot, shot at a coyote running across the field, (miss) and then watched a little buck eat every kernel of corn under a feeder. I heard the feeder go off on the next plot over at 7:00 and when I walked over there at 11:00 all the corn was gone. We don't hunt that plot.

This deer is going to the processor for some folks that live behind me at the lakehouse. Hope to shoot at least three more, but the clock is really running.

 

[Blackfork]

Doe with 1891 Argentine Cavalry Mauser, 7.65.

Here's the doe with the exit side up. 120Gr Sierra Gameking at 70 yards.

Doe tags sound pretty easy but two of us hunted two hunts each, then I stayed for one extra evening by myself. I saw nine bucks the first evening, he saw three small doe and a bigger one that didn't offer a shot. The next morning he didn't see anything and cut the morning hunt short. He jumped four does coming out. I saw a doe I didn't want to shoot, a coyote, and a young buck. These were the first mature does I saw in the last few minutes of shooting time.

We have 30 doe tags and 10 buck tags. This was the 13th deer.

 

[eliphalet]

We have 30 doe tags and 10 buck tags. This was the 13th deer

How many hunters does it take to have 40 tags? From your post is appears be two, is this correct? If so how fortunate we get one.

 

[Blackfork]

40 tags

The landowner gets them based on three deer census night counts, the size of his ranch and his game management commitment. This guy runs 1200 acres....just for deer. No crops, no cows, just deer. He's got the highest level Texas wildlife management designation possible.

I've guided folks- an army guy and his dad, the teen son of a friend, a college buddy, another guy from the TSRA shooting team, and myself. We've shot 13 deer. I can place another four if I can get them down. Hope to have multiple hunters up this coming weekend.

My college buddy, who had never shot a deer, has shot five does this year. He went out and bought a Rem 800 270 and a Tikka T3 in 223. Hope to get him back up this week.

It's been a weird year for deer movement. They ignored the feeders and food plots early and now are moving mid-day and right at dusk.

We lost the best stand to wind on the 5th this month. Blew it until it pulled the anchor and went over. It was a tack-welded commercial job. Completely wrecked as far as the blind.

All the protein and corn feeders running. The cams all have fresh batts and cards. We have a cleaning rack with cement floor, running water and hoists.

He needs more hunters, thats for sure, or a couple more nuts like me that want to shoot deer with vintage firearms. I bet we don't break 18 deer total, with zero bucks shot.

I'm down to an AR carbine, an NVA SKS, and a Chilean 1895 Mauser Carbine that shoots a foot left at 50 yards. I do have a few unblooded Garands and M1 Carbines and K31s.

It's my opinion that shooting one deer a year gets you one years experience repeated over and over. Kill six or seven a year and you really learn about killing with a rifle. I'm diluting that experience by switching rifles too often, but having a great time shooting these old guns.

 

[Blackfork]

Just re-iced my cooler. This deer goes to a retired army guy who has cataracts too bad to hunt. His family property backs up to mine at my lakehouse. He asked me to shoot them a doe and put their name on it at the processor. I hunt our collective deer, plus, he and his family are great folks. I've given his brother-in-law, who is kind of the black sheep of the family, taking care of their old mom three whole deer this year. Need to get him one more.

Funny thing about my retired Sgt friend is: he once was with a unit that worked Camp Perry back when the Armed Forces ran the National Matches. He also can still do the rifle drill with a Garand, he hadn't held one in 30 years when I dropped by with one.

 

[moosehunt]

Maybeso it's just me, but something just doesn't ring clear when one guy shoots more than 1 deer a year, especially when I haven't drawn a tag for 8 years in my home state (granted, I did draw a couple in CO, went 1 for 2). You fellows make your own choices and I am not criticizing, but I would not kill does. That is your reproduction base for future years.

 

[birdbustr]

Moosehunt,
Does aren't going to be allowed to be taken unless that states' Department of Natural Resources or whatever they call themselves has determined that does need to be reduced to control the population. In most states East of the Mississippi there is a serious need to maintain or reduce the deer populations. Besides, the wildlife biologists have done the research and have the numbers. Meat is meat anyway and it doesn't bother me in the least to take a doe if the state sees fit to make it legal IMO.

 

[moosehunt]

I'm not going to argue or criticize. As I said, you fellows make your own choice. For me, it's no does. As for trusting Game & Fish Dept. knowledge, I see where politics has pretty much over ruled science and don't much bank on what they say anymore.

 

[asknight]

When you've got at least 1 deer per acre, as it is here in my area, active management controls need to be put in place to maintain the health and numbers in the herd.

With such a good acorn crop this year with mild winter temperatures, most of the does will have twins this spring. That means the herd will be about tripling in size.

How else do you propose to manage the health and numbers of this herd without allowing it to overpopulate, moosehunt?

 

[Blackfork]

Deer sex ratio on a healthy herd.

The management tags come from the state biologist. Many counties in Texas issue doe tags, but not all. I think the proper ratio is pretty close to 1:1 for does and bucks. Much less than that and the deer quit defending territory and the lesser, younger bucks get to breed, the rut and the fawn season spread out, the predators take more and the herd generally goes to heck in a handbasket.

In this particular situation, I think the neighbors shoot the ranchers big bucks when they come over the fenceline, but no one shoots does except us, so we are continually out of balance. That's just my theory. In the four years I have shot up there only five bucks that I can think of have been shot on the place. As I said before, we never get near the state recommendations for deer kill. Usually they give us about 30 doe tags and 10 bucks. We've never killed 20, total.

We have to collect a live weight, dressed weight, tag and preserve the jawbone and fill out a little info on each deer.

Not shooting does is fairly widely proven to be a bad idea for increasing and improving deer herd. Lots of info floating around on the web. Some of the proven science is a little counter-intuitive, like shooting does.

AR14 up next, I think. Might hit the Midway site and see about putting a BSA aimpoint on it before the weekend.

Also- looking over the nine bucks in the dusk Friday evening- the big ones all had missing/broken antlers. Two of the youngsters sparred a bit. A very nice buck walked out fourth (10 point in the 120s)...and strutted around the edge of the field with his head up and tail up with the point bent over- typical dominant buck behavior. I thought it was a little strange because we had just looked at the cam cards that afternoon and there were some bigger bucks in the immediate area. The next buck out WAS bigger...but he was limping badly. By the time more bucks came out, including some bigger ones, it had just gotten too dark to see much. I could tell they were plenty wide though.

Hope the landowner cuts us a few buck tags this last couple of weekends. My buddy from college, who is a Dr. of biology (virologist) from Texas A & M himself has shot five does and is coming back. He's got it bad, though he had never shot a deer before this year. Like to get him something with horns on its head.

 

[mcnownaw]

I am not familiar with the 7.65 caliber you used on that doe, but a 120 grn bullet seems pretty light for a .30 cal rifle. It must really be moving along and sure looks like it did the job. Is that a normal bullet weight for that cartridge? Did you hit any ribs on that shot?

 

[retrieverman]

Maybeso it's just me, but something just doesn't ring clear when one guy shoots more than 1 deer a year, especially when I haven't drawn a tag for 8 years in my home state (granted, I did draw a couple in CO, went 1 for 2). You fellows make your own choices and I am not criticizing, but I would not kill does. That is your reproduction base for future years.

Moosehunt
I know you say you are not criticizing, but I believe that you are. (It appears as though you don't) understand the basics on quality deer management. I get 7 doe tags for my place and have for several years, and the body weights and racks have improved every year. I plant food plots as the weather allows, but other than that, I do absolutely no supplemental feeding.

In theory, yes, does are the reproductive base for the future, but in practice, more is not always better. If you want a lot of scrawny deer with poor racks, leaving does is fine, but if you want healthy deer with large racks, the herd has to be managed.

 

[Blackfork]

7.65 Argentine

It's a really old round, as old as 7x57. Just seemed to be used by the Argentines and a few others when the South Americans were buying guns from the Germans. The model 1891 and the Model 1909 were 7.65s, then they dropped it.

When I was a kid, the boys deer rifle was a scoped 7.65 Argentine long rifle with the bolt bent and the last four inches of the barrel cut off so that it ended just past the full-length stock. I could never figure why a Mauser, which I thought was a famous German WWII rifle, had Argentine markings on it.

I handload and use 120 Sierra Gamekings (311 dia). They seem to stabilize in the short barrels of the 1891 Engineer and Cavalry Carbines and the 1909 Carbine I have. I was worried a heavier bullet might not. Plenty of knock-down and good groups. I'm not anywhere near a full powder load at 44 grains of Varget. I think the original bullets were 150s and up. I've got a few and they have a noticably heavier recoil.

I tried 100 grain Matchkings in an old Chilean 7X57 and my Ruger #1. Seems like I had a hard time getting deer down with them. Really fast and like shooting an airgun, plus great accuracy, but just not enough punch. The Gamekings solved that problem, some of which may have been bullet placement. I shot a couple of deer high in the lungs and they went down but didn't die quickly. I was mostly shooting headshots then with a scoped Ruger #1. Probably should have gone with it a little longer, but I started a run of shooting does with Garand, M38, P17, M1 Carbine, Jap T44, K31, 1903A3, K98, et.

Previously I had run 180 round nosed bullets in the Ruger #1 7X57, for shooting deer about 15 yards in heavy brush when I rattled them up.

I'd like to have full-length 1891 Arg again, just haven't hit the right deal. The 1891 and a Swede Carbine are the only two vintage rifles I'd like to buy at this point.

Just ordered a BSA aimpoint from Midway to put on my AR Carbine flattop. Going to shoot the next doe with it this weekend. Got a box of Remington 64gr softpoints.

I gotta say, every time I run one of those Norma-cased 7.65s into the chamber of those old Argentines, I think about my dad who was one of the great guys of my life and a hell of a hunter.

 

[Blackfork]

Rib shots.

I turned in that doe today and didn't look inside. Meant to. Field dressed her on a rack pretty quickly and didn't spend a lot of time poking around. I broke a good shot and she hopped like they do when they are heart/lung shot. I knew I had hit her solidly and put the Carbine down and watched her through binocs. Just a 60-70 yard shot. She trotted about 30 yards, stumbled and then folded down. The Gameking made a heck of a hole coming out, as is shown in the photo.

Even last years M1 carbine 30 cal softpoint bullet went all the way through the lungs of a deer. They are pretty light. I'm sure I hit ribs on one side or the other.

 

[Blackfork]

Capstick on 7X57

Friend of mine had the pleasure of meeting Peter Hathaway Capstick late in his career. He asked him about shooting hogs with 7X57. Capstick, who was well lubricated this evening, said 7X57 was the greatest rifle in the world for warthogs. Just shoot them right on the shoulder socket, (which is a little forward on a hog) and drive it and the splinters into the heart and lungs. He said they went down "On the bloody damn SPOT."

 

[moosehunt]

Mr. Retrieverman: Obviously, we live in two different worlds. I know Texas is different, and I don't question what you say about a lot of deer, it's simply beyond my imagination. In deer areas, I'd consider 1 per 3-4 sq. miles pretty good. My state has often been considered pretty good for deer, yet I haven't been lucky enough to draw a tag for 8 years. We've had some bad fires in recent years, burning several millions of winter feed acres. Because of the feed shortage, the G&F authorized a bunch of doe tags a year or so ago because the winter feed areas couldn't support them. It will take many years to rebound from that lose (the does killed). When folks wait years to draw a tag, then 50-60% aren't successful when they do draw, it's pretty hard to understand people talking of killing more than 1 a year or does. I'm glad some of you can afford the high dollar private hunting in TX--more power to you. My daughter & family live there. Their combined $140K per incomes don't seem to be enough for them to afford it! My 18 yr old grandson has never been able to hunt in TX, and because of school of course, hunting out of state has been pretty much out. He did get to hunt in Namibia last year, loved it. Really wants to hunt deer, but can't afford it in TX. Once he gets through college, he'll be able to hunt out of state. More power to you guys! Enjoy your windfall! Like I said, though you call me for being a liar, I don't criticize you; just envy you.

 

[Blackfork]

Hunting costs.

Moose: this is a very fortunate situation. I'm not paying a fee for hunting on the lease. It's all by invitation. I don't pay to hunt behind my lakehouse either. You are absolutely right- lease fees in Texas have gone through the roof.

I try and keep the cost down by making sure I have a home for every deer I shoot to avoid processing costs. There are a lot of people who want deermeat and are willing to pay the butchering cost.

Also make a big effort to take new folks hunting and walk them through the process. Four this year so far. Hope to get a couple of more folks before the season is done.

1891 Argentine Mauser carbine video on Youtube. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RUkX7HlLQNA

 

[retrieverman]

Moosehunt
I apologize for the tone of my post but never did call you a "liar". For the record, I blessed to hunt family land in Texas and Oklahoma, but there are still reasonably priced places to hunt here. You can't hunt south or west, but east Texas, which is where I am, hold LOTS of deer and some reasonably priced "family" leases. I don't know where you family lives, but they might want to research the east Texas.
My son killed this buck of our place here last year.



I will be honest here. I love to hunt, but if I couldn't kill but one deer a year, I believe I would take up golf. I killed 9 deer between 2 states, and my youngest son killed 6 (my oldest son doesn't hunt). I gave nearly all the meat to an African American church that a friend attends, and they would have liked to have had more.

 

[moosehunt]

Only 1 deer a year? Ha! Try one deer hunt (not neccesarily 1 deer) every 4-7 years!! I'm kind of over-due to draw after being unsuccessful for 8 years. I tried golf once--it ain't ever going to be part of my plan! I say once, I mean for a few months. I found no pleasure.

 

[Blackfork]

Follow-up?

That kid is going to have to shoot Bigfoot to top that deer. Very nice buck. Is he holding a Contender Rifle?

 

[retrieverman]

That kid is going to have to shoot Bigfoot to top that deer. Very nice buck. Is he holding a Contender Rifle?

My son is shooting an Encore 270, and he is very deadly with it. He actually topped that deer this year on our place in Oklahoma.

 

[retrieverman]

Here is one I killed in OK in 2004.

 

[Blackfork]

Thanks for the photos

Great deer. Your kid IS going to have to shoot Bigfoot to top that last one.

 

[Blackfork]

Maybe done.

The Good Doctor from A & M and I went up to shoot a few more doetags in a forecast of rain, wind and cold. Friday he shot two does, a 90 lb and a 108 lb from the stand with his Remington 700 while I spotted. The first one was through a light screen of twigs at about 5:00. I gave her a few minutes and then got down to get the trail. She was well hit, had run hard the way they do sometimes and was down about 60 yards away. We pulled her back to the tower and resumed our hunting. At about 5:30 a little buck came out and hit the feeder. It was the third or fourth time this same little six point had been there. At 6:10 does started coming into the field in waves from the opposite treeline. The Doctor got good position, we sorted through them and then I had him shoot the biggest one a little higher than normal to hit the backbone and drop her in place. He did, and she did.

Saturday morning it was raining hard, which was just as well because I was coming down with the flu.

The Doc drove back. I was very glad not to have been up there by myself.

That probably wraps up the season. I shot the 1903, the P17, the K98, The Krag and an Argentine 1891 Cav Mauser.

It was the Doc's first year to ever hunt and kill a deer. He shot seven, total. I think he's hooked.

 

[Redfactor]

Sometimes it takes a thread like this to make you appreciate what you've got. This just makes me love Oregon that much more.

We get tags when we want them (minus Mt. Goat and Big Horn Sheep) and we don't resort to "hunting" over food plots and feeders or behind fences.

Out here it takes skill and effort, but the payoffs are great and the success is more rewarding (even if we don't get the racks of those farmed deer).

I love how backwards thinking Texas is.
'We have too many deer so we all need to shoot five or more a year... AND let's make sure to plant plots and give them as many protein pellets then can eat.'

It's like catching a fish in a hatchery. Whooopie for you!!! Zero effort exerted - Zero skill needed. I think most Texas "hunters" would starve out here in the wilderness. lol


*please note that I realize that not all hunters from Texas are inept and I'm not accusing any of y'all who posted here as lacking of skills, I just think your system of deer "hunting" is SUPER lame. Like... way lame. It's like hunting at a zoo.