16 ga vs. 20 ga vs. 28 ga

[ArmedBear]

I don't think you have to be any more competent with the 28 gauge on grouse or woodcock. I've hunted both and can't recall a shot outside of 30 yards.

Our grouse may be a bit different from yours, but I'm going to assume that you are talking about small-shot birds.

This is a good chart:
http://www.duckhuntingchat.com/shotgun-shell-sizing-chart.php

What you will find is that 3/4 oz. of #7.5 contains 260 pellets, and 3/4 oz. of #8 contains 306. That's plenty, and hitting the bird with a 28 is probably going to be easier than with a 12, since the 28 will be quicker on target on fast-moving birds.

When you start talking about pheasant loads, though, 3/4 oz. only contains 101 pellets of #4 or 125 pellets of #5. That means you have to make choices between a couple of options:

1. Use #6 and limit your effective range on big birds, due to pellet energy, but you can use a more open choke for closer shots since you have more pellets.
2. Use #4 or #5 and a tight choke, so that pattern density isn't lost before pellet energy, but you have to hit dead-center or you will miss the bird (assuming that a Full choke even produces decent patterns with big pellets from a small bore),

With a 20 Gauge you can just put 1 oz. or even 1 1/2 oz. of #5 or #4, and have enough pellets to allow common hunting choke constrictions like IC/M.

That's what I meant when I said the 28 Gauge "hits a ceiling". It doesn't mean you can't hunt pheasant with a 28.

 

[oneounceload]

With a 20 Gauge you can just put 1 oz. or even 1 1/2 oz. of #5 or #4,

If you're going to do that, then you might as well find a nice 6-6-1/2 # 12. Patterns in a 20 using loads like that, IME, have been terrible

 

[ArmedBear]

I didn't say I used 1 1/2 oz. in a 20. I don't.

But... if a 20 can't handle 1 oz. of #4 or #5, a 28 most certainly can't shoot a longer-range pheasant load.

 

[Marlin 45 carbine]

I'd go for the 20, I can't believe the prices on 16ga shells. but it's a good gauge for small game. the 3" chamber of the 20 allows some 'express' loads if you go after ducks/geese too. or coyotes.

 

[JohnBT]

Re: 28 ga. ceiling, etc.

C'mon y'all, just take a few extra steps and get closer to the target. The exercise won't kill you. If they're flying you just have to get on them faster or wait for them to come back.


"If you do get a 28 you must handload, and save every empty hull you shoot!"

I must? Why? I only dress poor, I'm not really down on my luck. Then again, after spending $125 for a corner of the end zone seat at the Skins/Broncos game yesterday and paying $8 for a beer, maybe I'm closer to being poor than I think...

At least it was a 16-ounce can of Red Stripe and not a Miller Lite draft in a plastic cup. $8 for a draft beer is crazy.


John

 

[ArmedBear]

C'mon y'all, just take a few extra steps and get closer to the target. The exercise won't kill you. If they're flying you just have to get on them faster or wait for them to come back.

LOL

You've never hunted Chukar, have you?

Step closer to what? A 500 foot cliff?

And 5 miles of walking around hunting pheasants is what we do to rest up.

 

[PJR]

Our grouse may be a bit different from yours, but I'm going to assume that you are talking about small-shot birds.

Yes. I'm in the east. Ruffed grouse and woodcock are found in tight cover and I shoot them with #7.5 shot. For them the 28 gauge does just fine.

For larger birds at long distances I prefer the 12 with at least 1-1/8 ounces of shot and nothing smaller than #6.

 

[JohnBT]

"You've never hunted Chukar, have you?

Step closer to what? A 500 foot cliff?"



Okay, let me picture this. You shoot this bird and it falls over a 500 foot cliff? How do you retrieve it?

Sounds about as easy as shooting ducks in a saltwater creek when the tide is running out. You can run the outboard wide open and you still might not catch up to it as it floats to the river and heads to the bay.

 

[oneounceload]

If the bird falls off the cliff, that's when you send out the dog. Having chukar hunted in northern NV, I can attest to what AB is saying. It is, IMO, the hardest upland hunting in the lower 48. Always moving uphill, no easy paths or trails or meadows. A 5-1/2 to 6# 28 or a 6 to 6-1/2# 20 will still feel like you've been hauling logs around with you after a day chasing those birds.

(But is still is fun)

 

[ArmedBear]

Okay, let me picture this. You shoot this bird and it falls over a 500 foot cliff? How do you retrieve it?

You guys don't have real dogs back there, either, do you?

Man, I've got to go hunt birds in the East. Sounds almost like sitting on the couch. I'd have to make sure I didn't get fat, though, since I'm used to eating a big meal when I get home.

Seriously, stories about chukar hunting sound like BS. But they're not.

 

[JohnBT]

You tie a rope on the dog and lower 'em over the edge? I'm starting to get the picture I think. "Just chuck 'er over the edge."

John

 

[oneounceload]

Now AB, you SHOULD try one of the GA quail plantations......some of the places carry you and the dogs in a nice wagon to a spot where you can leisurely get out, load your guns and let the pointers find them. Then, it's back in the wagon to go to the next spot. The meals are great, the accommodations make a Hilton look like Motel 6 downtown, and the folks are pleasant.

http://www.wynfieldplantation.com/

http://www.riopiedraplantation.com/

http://www.riverviewplantation.com/\

http://www.pinehillplantation.com/

 

[JohnBT]

Looks like fun, but HA, have you seen John Kluge's picnic wagon. He sold it off a few years ago. He's the rich guy from over around Charlottesville.

("In 1986, Kluge sold the Metromedia television stations to the 20th Century Fox film studio, which was now controlled by Rupert Murdoch's News Corporation, for a reported USD $4 billion. Those stations would later form the core of what would become the Fox television network. The following year, Forbes Magazine placed John Kluge at the top of its list as the richest man in America.")

Ms. Kluge just put her house, and 300 acres, on the market for $100 million. Yep. I think it's listed with Sotheby's NY. She is keeping the winery and wants to build another house across the road. Albemarle County has always had its share of rich folks. My grandfather was just an apple farmer with 1500 trees and a strong back.

The 1,000-pound lunch wagon...

http://caliber.ucpress.net/na101/ho.../6/3/gfc.2006.6.3.1/gfc.2006.6.3.1.fp.png_v03

 

[ArmedBear]

link problem will fix later

 

[45crittergitter]

I agree with most... the 20 is by far the most practical when it comes to ammo. I'd get it. Then get the others in addition to it if you want. But if you shoot much, a 20 is probably going to make you happiest.

 

[Vikingsoftpaw]

The 16 gauge could be a bit dicey, too hard to find shells. The 28 ga will cost a bit more. If you reload, one doesn't get the number of reloads one can with the 20 gauge. I think the 20 ga is the way to go.

 

[tactikel]

Johnbt, didn't mean to imply you couldnt afford shells! I shoot alot and can handload 28ga for $3.70 a box (or less if I really shop for components). Thats $40 bucks saved each time I shoot a box of clay. The more you shoot a new gun, one that needs to be brought to shoulder quick (as a grouse/chukkar gun needs to) the more successful you will be. I scrounge shells at the range and have never even seen 28 ga emptys. Hence my advice. If money is not a factor (and it is for me) buy a couple of cases of shells, and go for it!

 

[oneounceload]

If you reload, one doesn't get the number of reloads one can with the 20 gauge

????? I get as many reloads in either 12, 20 or 28 - not sure what you're trying to say here.

They're ALL good for their intended purposes

 

[ArmedBear]

I get as many reloads in either 12, 20 or 28

You must toss out your 12s early.

Petals break down, and the tighter they're crimped (i.e. the smaller the shell), the shorter their life.

Of course, some 28 Gauge reloaders are known to use Scotch Tape and other tricks to "extend" hull life...

 

[oneounceload]

Scotch tape?? Not for me - I prefer candle wax - holds better. Will use a cheerio or spent 209 if my recipe doesn't quite fill that 28 hull also....

 

[Loyalist Dave]

OK ENOUGH BS...,:banghead:

Yes the twenty is more versitile due to factory ammunition loads than the 16 gauge.

Due to the large numbers of production 20 gauges, you will probably have an easier time getting one repaired in short order should something break.

More folks like the 20 than a 16, so they are easier to sell off (God forbid but it happens ).

As for ammo prices, Winchester Super-X game loads in 16 gauge are CHEAPER by $1.40 a box, than 20 gauge. Winchester Super-X High brass loads were only 30 cents more expensive in 16 gauge compared to 20 gauge.

Remington Pheasant Loads for 16 gauge are 80 cents more expensive than 20 gauge loads, with 1/8 ounce more shot.

Estate brand high velocity hunting loads are a mere 10 cents more in 16 gauge than 20 gauge, and you get 1/8 ounce more shot per shell.

( NONE of the above companies is located in Upperfartistan!)

The Federal shells had the biggest price difference, with their 16 gauge game loads being almost $2 higher than 20 or 12 gauge.

NOW realisticly, unless you are shooting close to a case of shells a month, over several months, reloading is probably NOT cost effective.

The OTHER ADVANTAGE of the 20 gauge over 16 in price..., when the 20 gauge shells go on sale they will probably be substantially lower than 16 gauge, if 16 gauge goes on sale at all.


So although I am a huge fan of 16 gauge..., it isn't as versitile (even when only talking 2.75" shells) as a 16 gauge. SO I CHEAT !. My 16 gauge SxS is only a few ounces heavier than a 20 gauge in the same gun, and I shoot 16 gauge shells, BUT I also have Chamber Mate adaptors, and can shoot the inexpensive 20 gauge game-loads out of the 16 gauge as well, and they shoot as well as 16 gauge shells. So I can have my nostalgia, and cheapest possible ammo too.

LOOK get the shotgun YOU LIKE THE MOST!. Get the one that handles the best in your hands, has the best balance as you like it. You will shoot it more, hunt with it more, and be better with it than something that doesn't fit you as well as it fits your budget. Adapt to the other factors!

Loyalist Dave
Member: 16 Gauge Society

 

[blacklab]

im 225 lbs and i got 6.25 lbs 12ga.

 

[ArmedBear]

OK ENOUGH BS...

LOL

I agree with that, but I think there's more BS than you acknowledge.

I currently have chukar and quail in my fridge. Just ate up the pheasant; need to go get more.

The chukar dropped stone dead from 1 oz. of #6 in a 20 Gauge semi with a modified choke. The quail was incidental, since a covey flushed out when I was looking for pheasant. So I shot 1 3/8 oz. of #5 in a 12 Gauge semi with a modified choke, and it worked fine on that covey -- the holes are definitely bigger than what I'm used to with #7.5, though... The most recent pheasant fell to 1 oz. of #4 in a 20 Gauge O/U, also stone dead when it hit the dirt.

If I'd had my old 16 Gauge SxS, no doubt the birds in question would be just as dead -- but NO DEADER -- than the 20 gauges rendered them.

The old upland adage still holds: buy the gun, not the gauge. As Dave says, get the one that feels right -- but do be aware that, of the three, 16 is less versatile in 2009, and 28 has more upper-end limitations, than the 20 Gauge.

There's really nothing in upland hunting that a 20 Gauge can't do -- or a 12, or a 16.

...and it so happens that 20 Gauge guns do tend to be wonderful upland shotguns...

 

[Leaky Waders]

"The OTHER ADVANTAGE of the 20 gauge over 16 in price..., when the 20 gauge shells go on sale they will probably be substantially lower than 16 gauge, if 16 gauge goes on sale at all."

That is the biggest reason right there. If you plan ahead you can buy flats of most shells with some savings or coupons. But walking into walmart or some other store and you'll most likely find, like me, that the selection of shotgun shells in 16 or 28 will be rather limited and a lot higher priced. Probably because any similar priced shells were sold when they hit the shelf.

If you don't own a shotgun, then get a standard gauge first - 12/20.

Afterwards, you may find that you end up with quite a collection like my: 12/citori, 12/sbe, 12/390, 16/bps, 20citori, 20/montefeltro (really son #1's), 20/687 ,28/wingmaster and other 28/bps (really son #2's).

Secretly though, I want everyone to buy a 16 and 28...so hull prices will come down

 

[ArmedBear]

Hell, why stop there?

I want everyone to buy a 16 and a 28, and leave their hulls on the ground at the range!