I have a pair of old Wingmasters, one in 16 gauge and one in 20 gauge. I have never shot either, and I'm thinking of trading one away. I would like to keep one for my girlfriend as she is pretty small and maybe she would want to shoot a shotgun sometime. Which should I keep and why?
16 or 20 Gauge?
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scchokedaddy
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keep the 20,16 gauge getting hard to find shells and getting pricey too. been shooting 16 gauge for 40 years and just finaly had to put them away because of lack of finding shells. last case i bought 2 years ago was 73.00 at wally world and they have not had them since. these were "cheap" remington loads
rcmodel
Member in memoriam
I agree.
Keep the 20.
The 16 is an all but obsolete gauge in the U.S..
12, 20, 28, and .410 shells can be found most anywhere.
The 12 & 20 are by far the least expensive to shoot, because they are the most common.
16 ga shells?
Not that common, and certainly not cheap.
rc
Keep the 20.
The 16 is an all but obsolete gauge in the U.S..
12, 20, 28, and .410 shells can be found most anywhere.
The 12 & 20 are by far the least expensive to shoot, because they are the most common.
16 ga shells?
Not that common, and certainly not cheap.
rc
oneounceload
member
While the 16 gauge has seen limited popularity in recent times, I wouldn't call it dead quite yet. It is a venerable bore size with quite a good reputation in the uplands where many today are discovering its attributes. In certain areas, it, like the 28, are having a bit of resurgence by folks looking for some nostalgic bit of yesteryear.
Shells are available on line, as are reloading supplies.
If you're not into reloading and this will only see limited use, the 20 probably is the current choice to keep, IF you must get rid of one.
Shells are available on line, as are reloading supplies.
If you're not into reloading and this will only see limited use, the 20 probably is the current choice to keep, IF you must get rid of one.
deadeyedog270
Member
The only shot gun I own is a 16 gauge has not been fired in 40+ years but would not get rid of it for it has family value.
one day I will make a display case for mine and hand it down to my kids, may dad handed this one to me and his dad gave it to him
I would keep them both and hand them down
one day I will make a display case for mine and hand it down to my kids, may dad handed this one to me and his dad gave it to him
I would keep them both and hand them down
JimKirk
Member
If they were my Grandfather's, there would be no way I would trade any of them off, unless I was hungry and I couldn't find anything to shoot that I could eat.
Buy another if you need to.
Jimmy K
Buy another if you need to.
Jimmy K
MCgunner
Member
I can drive a block down to walmart and buy shells for my 16 not a problem. They even have 28s! But, I agree, 20 gauge for the GF makes the most sense.
76shuvlinoff
Member
You'll regret selling off a family heirloom.
I regret selling every gun I've ever sold and none of them were hand me downs.
I regret selling every gun I've ever sold and none of them were hand me downs.
Loyalist Dave
Member
AAAAH! Again with the myths. IF you mean "not that common" that a small gunshop or the yahoos at Wally World don't have them, you are correct. OTHERWISE, They are easily ordered online from Sportsmansguide. If you only shoot a box or two a year, and might forget them, and have to rely on the local skeet range to have them, then the 20 gauge is the way to go.
Additional myths I have also heard..., They are all foreign made shells, Estate brand shells are made in USA, and Remington, Winchester, and Federal are still making shells for that gauge, including waterfowl and slugs.
As for price, they are slightly more expensive in some but not all loadings than 20 gauge. If you buy in bulk even with shipping they are often not more than a dollar more a box, so unless you are shooting a flat a month, you're not saving much money with a 20. I have mentioned in the past on other threads that when you find "sales" on bulk shells, you WILL save more with the 20 gauge, but again, you need to buy lots to see the savings.
AH HA!
You guys missed that the shotguns belonged to his grandad, which probably indicates ONLY 2 & 3/4 inch shells, which really reduces the available variations in ammo for the 20 and adds a slight argument for the 16. For with the shorter shells, the 16 does do more than the 20..., of course if Grandad bought the wingmasters with 3" chambers, my clever argument goes miserably down in flames !NOW I love 16 gauge for nostalgic reasons, but must point out the simple fact that if you forget your shells at home, you have a better chance at finding 20 gauge shells at any mom-n-pop gunshop or at the range, than 16 gauge.
Me, I use a SxS and I have chamber adapters so I can shoot either 16 or 20 gauge shells from my 16 gauge guns. So I can do either, and IF I have a problem with 16 ammo, I can find and use 20 gauge as well.
LD
MCgunner
Member
I don't shoot 3" 20, why would I care if the gun chambered 'em? Oh, I've tried some on ducks in my 20, but they didn't pattern worth a toot. Not sayin' I couldn't find something that would, but I really don't need a 3" 20, that's why I have 3 12 gauge guns and a 10 gauge. I doubt his girl friend would care about 3", either, but perhaps if they're waterfowlers. But, in that case, neither gun is going to be steel shot compatible, either! And, you probably WOULD have to order 16 gauge steel shot....if they even make it.
cat_IT_guy
Member
I started shooting with a 16ga single shot. The thing kicked the crap out of me....granted I was a string bean 10yo. Not a bad round, but ammo is not as easy to come by as 20ga. Also doesnt offer much advantage over a 20ga. I would keep the 20.
nalioth
Member
I wonder how many of us were introduced to shotguns in this fashionbenatilstate said:
76shuvlinoff said:
Oh trust me, I won't. My grandfather passed away two years ago and his best friend who was my "other grandfather" is still alive and well. These are shotguns given to me by my father's father.
If you catch my drift.
bdsnooks
Member
Quote:
Originally Posted by benatilstate
I started shooting with a 16ga single shot. The thing kicked the crap out of me....granted I was a string bean 10yo.
When I was 9, my uncle "let" me shoot his 12 GA----he put me backed up against a tree so it wouldn't knock me down. It didn't knock me down, but it was years before I shot a shotgun again!
Originally Posted by benatilstate
I started shooting with a 16ga single shot. The thing kicked the crap out of me....granted I was a string bean 10yo.
When I was 9, my uncle "let" me shoot his 12 GA----he put me backed up against a tree so it wouldn't knock me down. It didn't knock me down, but it was years before I shot a shotgun again!
MCgunner
Member
I was 7 when my grandpa got me a .410 JC Higgins pump. I fired one shot while squatting and trying to reach the fore end ... ...and it kicked me to the ground. My grandpa laughed hysterically and I was scared of it until I was 9. LOL I shot 2 1/2" at first, then decided I'd try 3" at age 10. To my amazement, it didn't kick. My uncle gave me the 16 when I was about 15 and getting into goose hunting. It is an old Iver Johnson single shot and it has taken quite a few geese pass shooting on foggy mornings.
When he gave it to me, the stock was pretty trashed and the ejector was broken and I'd have to dig out the spent round with a pocket knife. There was a good gunsmith local at the time that liked kids, I guess, and he machined me an ejector for 25 bucks in 60s dollars. I refinished the stock and wood burned a duck on the stock, sorta personalized. I still have that old gun, but don't shoot it much. 30" full choke barrel on it and I have better guns now days, but there are memories in that gun. I don't sell guns that have memories and, well, I couldn't get 50 bucks for it anyway, LOL.
...and it kicked me to the ground. My grandpa laughed hysterically and I was scared of it until I was 9. LOL I shot 2 1/2" at first, then decided I'd try 3" at age 10. To my amazement, it didn't kick. My uncle gave me the 16 when I was about 15 and getting into goose hunting. It is an old Iver Johnson single shot and it has taken quite a few geese pass shooting on foggy mornings. When he gave it to me, the stock was pretty trashed and the ejector was broken and I'd have to dig out the spent round with a pocket knife. There was a good gunsmith local at the time that liked kids, I guess, and he machined me an ejector for 25 bucks in 60s dollars. I refinished the stock and wood burned a duck on the stock, sorta personalized. I still have that old gun, but don't shoot it much. 30" full choke barrel on it and I have better guns now days, but there are memories in that gun. I don't sell guns that have memories and, well, I couldn't get 50 bucks for it anyway, LOL.
chas08
Member
Probably the most popular answer would be "keep the 20" But I got a soft spot for the 16ga. It was my Grandfathers gauge of choice. I own two, a Model 12 Winchester and a Remington (Baikal) SxS. Keeping yourself in ammo isn't an issue now in the days of the internet. They are a bit more expensive to feed but not that much so if you shop around. I'd keep the 16 if I could only keep one or the other. It's already something of a rareity. And a 20 is ...well...just another 20. What I would most likely do is keep them both.
They do still make it in #2 and #4 steel. I bought a case of #2 for $140 last year. They offer 4's, 5's, & 6's in the high dollar stuff. I bought a case of #5 tungsten matrix year before last for $300 for a hundred rounds. It's pricey, but when I shoot a limit of Ducks with Grandpas Model 12...well...it was worth every penney.
I can buy 16 gauge shells at Cinco Grande (Big 5), albeit only in a 1oz "dove & quail" load.
Reloading is easy, though wad selection is limited.
The gauge really does "shoot like a 20 and hit like a 12". As a shooter, it's perhaps my favorite gauge. I really want a SxS 16 or an Ithaca pump. On a 12-bore frame, you won't feel the magic. But on the right sized frame, you'll understand right away.
Get some shells, and shoot the 16 for a while. I'm betting your question will answer itself.
--Shannon
Reloading is easy, though wad selection is limited.
The gauge really does "shoot like a 20 and hit like a 12". As a shooter, it's perhaps my favorite gauge. I really want a SxS 16 or an Ithaca pump. On a 12-bore frame, you won't feel the magic. But on the right sized frame, you'll understand right away.
Get some shells, and shoot the 16 for a while. I'm betting your question will answer itself.
--Shannon
Bull. It shoots like a 16, and it hits like a 16.
Originally, the slogan was "carries like a 20" anyway.
I have a 16 Gauge SxS, and I like it fine. In a SxS, 16 can make for a well-balanced gun, and an old 12 Gauge SxS that doesn't feel like complete crap is an expensive proposition. In an Ithaca 37, it's pretty darned nice, too (don't own the 37, but I've known people who do). In a Wingmaster (12 Gauge frame) it's just a pointless hassle, at least now that LC barrels are readily available in 12 Gauge. I am no fan of 12 Gauge, but I live in the real world: non-toxic shot rules have turned the 16 Gauge from an all-around field gun into a specialty pheasant shotgun.
That said, I believe my longest drop-dead-like-a-rock shot on a pheasant so far was with a 20 Gauge O/U shooting an ounce of #4. It "carries like a 28, and hits like a 16", if you will.
Bottom line? If you don't plan to reload, and it's neither a SxS nor something like an Ithaca 37 or Winchester Model 12, ditch the 16. Keep the 20 for cheap ammo and relatively low recoil.
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SwampWolf
Member
A pertinent question. Imo, the gauge of a shotgun should always be reflected in the dimensions of the receiver. There's nothing sillier, for instance, than screwing a 16 or 20 gauge barrel onto a 12 gauge frame. What would be the point? You give up the flexibility and cost advantages of the 12 gauge and get nothing in return in terms of better handling or superior ballistics. I like the sixteen gauge and am a fan of the twenty-but the gauge size must correspond with the receiver size for the lesser gauge to make any sense in the field.
Ah.
What would be the point?
Over the years, that's been a question Remington doesn't seem to ask.
The Wingmaster had one frame size until 1977, AFAIK. Ditto for the 1100, which is not a light gun, either.
But... In this case, a 20 on 12 might have its advantage: low felt recoil.
OTOH I wouldn't teach someone on a plain-barrel Remington, particularly with a bead on a post.
Dave McCracken
Moderator In Memoriam
I,too,started on a 16 gauge single shot that killed in front and crippled behind.
Nostalgia aside, the 16 did the job long ago and will today. An oz of shot works for an awful lot of stuff in the uplands.
However, if I had a 16 today, I'd feel compelled to load for it, just like I would for a 28.
There's just not enough ammo choices available to make me happy.
Nostalgia aside, the 16 did the job long ago and will today. An oz of shot works for an awful lot of stuff in the uplands.
However, if I had a 16 today, I'd feel compelled to load for it, just like I would for a 28.
There's just not enough ammo choices available to make me happy.
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