Zak Smith said:
On the contrary:
Quote:
Numerous articles and Internet rumors have suggested that the SPC designation means 6.8 is good only for Close Quarters Battle (CQB), but not distant targets. This is incorrect, and contrary to the intent of the project and capabilities of the cartridge. The SPC designation was assigned based on the intended integration into the Mk12 Special Purpose Rifle (SPR). The SPC was designed from the round up to provide increased energy, barrier penetration, and incapacitation from the Mk12 SPR, from contact distance to 500 meters
What are you talking about? The SPR has an 18 inch barrel, two inches shorter than the 20 inch. I never said anything about it being designed for short range, the cartridge was designed for shorter barrels than a standard M-16.
RockyMtnTactical said:
The fragmenting effects of XM193 and the like are great, but they are no substitute for proper shot placement. Shot placement is infinitely more important than the fragmenting, and you can still kill people very dead without the fragmenting effect.
So, to say that you are losing 30% of your effective range is an exaggeration IMO. Although I can appreciate where you are going with that and the point you are trying to make.
Also, another thing to consider is this, most engagements that our troops are in are within a couple hundred yards. For a civilian, or even a LEO, it is hard to imagine scenarios that would take place where you would need to use your carbine to take shots past 50 yards, little less past 100...
You make some good points.
I agree wholeheartedly with shot placement trumping bullet effects. An icepick to a vital is much more lethal than a shotgun blast to the pinky toe. You will still get a tumble effect from the bullet beyond frag range. Perhaps a better way to have phrased that is maximum "most effective" range.
As far as engagement ranges go it doesn't make sense to engage if you can't or haven't identified a threat. First you have to actually be able to see the badguy and in the woods or the city you might only have 25 or 50 yards of visibility. On top of that you have to also know that person really is a badguy which means some communication of intent. As range increases that can become more difficult. I mean really, is some housebreaker going to start sneering and giving you the middle finger from 500 yards away? Not very likely and even if he was you'd have to have line of sight on him and most likely be looking through some bins or something to be sure he wasn't smiling and waving.
Of course nothing is black and white either. If you live on a large piece of land in the country as I do then you may very well have several hundred yards of visibility and the need to be able to control it versus man and animals. In the city you can see as far as the other side of the street which probably isn't very far at all. Unless there's a big parking lot, a park or something else. Across isn't the only direction on a street either you can also look down it. Then it could be as far as the horizon or a near as the end of the block.
Then you have the badguy himself. While he might not be sneering and giving you the finger there might be something else to tip you off. Maybe you know who it is and what they're after from a previous encounter. Maybe it's pretty obvious they don't belong. My driveway is about 200 yards long, located well outside town on a very obscure one lane dirt trail. If a ghetto fabulous gangsta mobile starts pulling in then odds are it ain't the Jehova's witnesses and it ain't friendly. This is especially the case if a storm has knocked out power and ordinary civil services. I'm not saying shoot them all and let God sort them out but you probably do want a display of force and you darn well better be able to back it up if you have to. Or in another case a stray dog heading for my livestock needs to be stopped before it does any dammage even if it is far away. Or wild pigs in my garden.
Every situation will have its own unique characteristics but in general I think it's best to have everything covered from 200 yards in at least. Otherwise yes, you can usually expect anything that's going to happen to happen very close up. The picture doesn't look much different for hunting in most areas either.
Offensive purposes make longer ranges more likely and maybe even more desirable. Right now the way things are where I live offensive use is not much of a concern. The other side to that is if things always were and always would be just the same as they are now I never would have needed and never will need any defensive weapons at all.
There's nothing magically special about America that insulates it from problems other countries have. Political, economic and demographic trends all suggest these are the good old days and there's no telling what one can expect in the future. As civil order breaks down it might become preferable to take the fight to the badguys rather than wait for some MS 13 weirdos to turn your loved ones into dog meat just because they feel like it. In some areas this is already or very nearly truth even if it isn't the practice. If you are 70, 60 or maybe even 50 and live in a very calm part of the country then chances are you'll never have to be concerned about this. If you are 40 or under it is prudent to at least give it some thought because there is a real possibility that is a future you might face.
The likely distances for engagements make the shorter barreled rifles a no-brainer.
That's the other part of my argument. I don't feel the AR is well designed for this particular application. The cartridge isn't intended for short barrels and doesn't do its best out of them but it's ok and it's even fairly easy to switch calibers. You are still faced with your recoil spring being mounted in the buttstock which limits how short a stock you can have and eliminates the possibility of a folding stock. Sure, you can change that too if you have a whole lot of money to drop on specialized upgrades and it'd probably be fine but I'm not sure that makes sense when there are other platforms better designed for that application that cost less.
Now I'm pretty far off topic. Between the two the 16 inch barrel will get you further down the road than the 14.5 in pretty much any respect imo.
