$170 Spanish Mauser???

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Samco Glabal is advertising a 1916 Spanish Mauser in .308 for $169.00. according to their grading system, it is in "good" to "very good" condition. That is, there is 50-65% blueing remaining and the bore is good and the rifle functions (safely I'm assuming).
Should I be worried? Should I pass it on by?
 
I don't think I would buy.

The Spanish Mauser is a good rifle, but it is a small ring pattern-not the best choice for using modern, higher-pressure cartridges. As well, $170 would have to buy me a very clean specimen; Not too long ago, I paid $125 for a '93 that was VG to Exc.
 
Some of those are very accurate rifles. My dad has one that was sporterized and he has killed a lot of deer with it. The thing is, they aren't the 3 lug variety like the 98 Mausers are, so they aren't recommended for full throttle loads.

We handload, so we just load from the Hodgdon reduced load data to keep pressures down. 36 grains of H4895 and a 125 grain Ballistic Tip makes for a dead whitetail. And believe it or not, its shooting right at MOA. I'd have never thought it possible, but it surely is.

I agree with MachIVshooter that it would have to be in extremely good condition before I would invest $200 (after transfer) in it. Not a decision I would make based on internet pics.
 
While not really unsafe (they won't "blow up"), those guns won't take many .308 rounds before developing headspace problems. For a guy who buys a box of ammo every ten years whether he needs to or not, and wants a beater for his pickup truck, they would be fine.

But there is a hidden trap that has nothing to do with the gun itself.

You (that indefinite "you", of course, nothing personal) buy that rifle. Then you decide it needs a scope. So $80 for drilling and tapping, $50 for a mount, $30 for rings, $200 for a scope. Then you think it would look better with a new stock. Then the new stock looks so good you decide to have the gun reblued. Then you decide you want a .243, so you have the rifle rebarrelled. Then ....

And when you have it all done, you have a couple of thousand in it and you still have an old Spanish Mauser that could develop headspace problems after a few hundred shots. And if you sell it, you get, well, $170.

Jim
 
Would make a fine addition to any diverse gun collection. Likely not the 'go to' rifle for most folks. I would not invest any serious cash in it for upgrades, but an interesting rifle it is.

But for the cost of a night out on the town, or other similar frivolous things, you can get a nice functioning rifle that you could shoot on occasion for very little cash. Heck, I've dated women that would spend twice that on a purse or pair of shoes that are long forgotten in a year...
 
You all have made very good points. I have a few C&R Rifles in my collection and two of them are more than 80 years old. I spent very little buying each one and got fine rifles in fantastic shape! I know what it means to cherish and take care of these old guns. I was hoping to find a real good one on line and for really cheap. Then again, I never buy without touching!
 
The basic problem with pre 1920's rifles is whether they are safe to shoot. The metallurgy of the period was primitive, the process controls non existent, even if the action was properly heat treated of excellent steel, the steel was plain carbon steel. No one uses that stuff as the hardening properties are irratic, the material properties inferior even to the lowest grade alloy steel. In the 1940’s these plain carbon steels were being derisively called “shallow hardening” for good reason.

Perhaps the greatest structural issue is that the operating pressure of modern 308 Winchesters is at or above the proof pressures of these actions. It is no wonder that of the actions out there, more M1893’s/M1916’s have excessive headspace reports than any other action.

If the 308 round was downloaded to NTE 40,000 psia levels, the rifles could be shot with a reasonable expectation that excessive headspace would not develop, but who knows.

These old rifles are interesting from a historical perspective but they must be understood from when they were made and what standards they were made to.
 
A link to a newspaper article in PA described a guy who died when shooting such a Mauser 7.62x51 conversion at a range.
I saw this link on a gun website within the last few years, but don't remember the article's date.

The brief article (no bookmark) said nothing about whether he used comm. .308, factory, reloads etc. Nothing.
 
You are probably thinking of the unfortunate death of Mr. Glen de Ruiter. He was fireforming brass in his 6mm lee-navy straight pull 1895. Apparently he worked at SARCO and liked antique rifles.

Bethlehem Township, PA 1 July 2002

http://www.falfiles.com/forums/printthread.php?threadid=43726
Yes, I was at the next range over, in a shooting class, about 75 - 80 yards away. One of Glen's shooting buddies came running around the berm, asking us to call 911, saying there was an accident. One of our class members dialed 911, two class members (Rick and Pete) ran to the scene, the instructor gave me a first aid kit and I took it to where Glen was laying. Rick and Pete were doing what they could to help. I tried to give assistance where possible, without being in Rick and Pete's way. Here are Rick's own words about the incident from another list, he tells it the best:

"I was one of the first to arrive at the scene. Glenn was lying on his back, bleeding from a single wound to the center of his forehead. A quick survey of the scene showed his rifle in two pieces, looking like it separated at the receiver ring. I knelt down to Glenn and check for a pulse. I easily found the pulse in the carotid. A couple quick shouts to see if he were conscious were futile and he wasn't breathing so I pulled the jaw down and pushed the tongue down to open the airway. He took in a deep raspy breath. I then moved to the forehead. I gingerly felt the open wound for protruding metal. Finding none, I began to apply pressure to the wound. About this time, Pete showed up and immediately began to assist. For the next 12 minutes, Pete maintained his airway and I kept pressure on his forehead to stop the bleeding. He was unconscious the entire time, most likely from the initial explosion. Pupils were dilated and fixed for the entire period as well. When Pete & I handed him off to EMS, Glenn was still breathing on his own and had a good heartbeat.........

It wasn't until later that I found out that when Glenn was taken to the hospital, x-rays revealed that a piece of metal 40mm on its long side had penetrated the brain, ending its straight though travel at the rear of the skull; destroying his sinus cavity in the process.
 
In the early 90s, I bought 2 1985 Ludwig Lowe Mausers that had been converted to 7.62x51mm by the Chilean military (and re-heat treated) in the 1950s. One of them had a chamber sleave insert that had been failing! Has a gunsmith check them both out. One converted to .257 Roberts Ackley Imp with cock on opening and low profile bolt handle, the other converted back to 7x57. Both are great rifles. Sold the latter to a friend but I'd like it back if he ever sells it.

The craftsmanship and smoothness of the actions are unbeatable these days. I know the alloys are old (probably the biggest danger with 19th C. steel is cold embrittlement) but am comfortable with these moderate pressure cartridges.

Mike
 
I bought a Spanish 1916 SEVERAL years ago (mid 90's, I guess), in the original 7mm. I don't know what it cost.. probably around $100. I had gauges, and bought a couple of stripped bolts and found one that headspaced perfectly. Shoots fine enough for me. I keep it in the shop. The action is... well, it works, but it would hardly be considered "smooth".

I would not even consider buying one in .308.
 
Totally different animals. The Ludwig Lowe and J. P. Sauer and Sons licenced Mauser rifles have amazing craftsmanship, even better than peacetime Mausers.

Mike
 
Spanish 1893

The one I had was marked "7.52," for some strange reason. The bore was fine, but the stock was sorry. It had multiple cracks and splits in it. The lower band was loose, and the wings on the front sight were crushed in, like maybe a truck had run over it. I replaced the front sight, let the lower band be. Loaded 7.62 NATO brass to the lowest range of old 7x57 Mauser data, and it shot fine. Spent about $65 having the stock repaired, then got rid of it.:D
 
I forget now what I paid for my Spanish Mauser, but I'm thinking it was around $140 a couple years ago. Though I'm fairly confident it will fire 7.62x51 safely, I bought a boatload of plastic training ammunition that I haven't the slightest pause using out of this Mauser. It launches a 10gr plastic slug at up to 4000 fps and recoils very little.

It makes short work of 2 liters and will atomize a 12oz. Fun.

5166824716_64d946f765_z.jpg
 
I owned one. Not very fond of it. It kicked like a mule and the cleaning rod would walk out while shooting it. You could not just remove the cleaning rod as it helps keep the front piece in place. When I did take it to the it was always the last rifle I shot. In it's original 7mm caliber it was a sweet little rifle.
 
FR8 (large ring mauser) is a great and fun gun, like others have said though I would stay away from small ring conversions.
 
I would pass, considering these arent .308 as they are advertising, but 7.62x51. It can be and HAS been dangerous to fire commercial .308 in these. Better off getting one of these http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/...ts_id/61827/Mossberg+100ATR+FL+LBA+308+MT+SYN for $300 after transfer, than one of those for $200 after shipping (and transfer, if your not C&R).

No, not exactly the same cartridge, but plenty close enough, I can assure you. Here's a really good read on 7.62x51 vs. 308 Winchester that every internet expert should read. Here is a link to the SAAMI website and their PDF of a 14 page brochure in which is listed "Unsafe Arms and Ammunition Combinations". The .308/7.62x51 are not listed as non-interchangeable. Also, SAMCO provides, on request, an article in which gun Test Magazine tested this particular model rifle. In the article they discuss H.P. White Laboratory's testing of this particular rifle and its use with .308 ammunition. It took a load at over 98,000, that's 98 THOUSAND PSI to finally blow up the rifle. IF I could figure out how to attach a PDF, I do it, but I don't have a clue.

Oh, and by the way, mine is stamped on the underside of the barrel near the muzzle ".308 Win".



You'll find plenty of folks on internet forums, most who don't own the rifles, others who do and are scared to death of them telling how dangerous they are, but I assure you if they are dangerous, SAMCO wouldn't have been marketing them for 26+ years. If you're one of those guys that handloads right on the ragged edge of maximum loads, then no, I wouldn't buy one. Sure, they'll likely take those loads as well as any commercial .308, just not for as long.

I bought one of these rifles as the basis for a Scout rifle for my wife. Not only is it simple and rugged, but is also quite accurate:

Finished.jpg

FirstTarget-1.jpg

Target-mod.jpg

Just a heads-up, this thread, if like most on the subject of this rifle, will eventually degrade into a bunch of mudslinging and wind up locked.

35W
 
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