1851 cylinder chamber?

[mr wack]

Hello all , I've had an ASP 1851 36 for a while but hadn't shot it till yesterday ,
So as usual I got all situated in my back yard and started to load and I was shocked when ramming the first .376 ( that's what they drop from my mold ) rb didn't shave a little ring of pb off the ball like my 44 does .
I thought someone had "reamed" the chambers out for some reason but looking closer I noticed the chambers are chamfered, hence no ring of pb.
Anyway to my question,,,, Do all manufacturers chamfer their chambers or just some ?.
Thanks in advance folks..

 

[Tommygunn]

Some do: I have a Euroarms Remington 1858 with chamfered chambers.
As long as the balls don't "back out" under recoil then everything is copacetic.

 

[dagger dog]

I chamfered the cylinder chambers on both of my navies, just enough to break the sharp edge.

Here is a good article on cap and ball revolvers, www.geojohn.org, he has a unique twist on shooting bp revolvers.

 

[Hellgate]

Your chambers are swaging the balls rather than shearing them. I agree 100% with what Tommygun said.

 

[midland man]

I did it on mine and works perfect!

 

[Noz]

I have an original 1851 and the chambers are chamfered.

 

[Erwan]

Hi,

I don't like much the wigs formed sometime by the lead rings, so on all my .36 and .44 I give an angle with a deburring tool. I'ts enough and works well: no rings on lever and no wigs made by forgetten rings, and I use all de lead of the bullets..
Compression is good and sufficient.
That's joining perfectly and the deformation of the bullet is nothing if U R thinking about this...

That what I do and I'm always in accord with what I do.....

 

[mr wack]

Thank you all , my mind is at peace now.
It's going to be nice outside today so guess what i'll be doing,,,

 

[Old Fuff]

One possible problem.

Some of the Italian replica revolvers have barrels with groove diameters running as high as .380" while the chambers are as small as .372"!

Since the balls or bullets are swaged to chamber diameter regardless of whatever they start out as, this mismatch between the chamber and bore can result in less then optical accuracy.

Which is the reason some shooters end up reaming the chambers to .380" and use a larger ball size.

 

[mr wack]

I measured a chamber and it is right at .372 and a bore slug measured .376,
I think the ball may bump up .004 when fired but I don't know.

 

[Old Fuff]

If the ball is pure lead and not alloyed with something else it certainly will, but this isn't helpful if you're interested in getting the best possible accuracy.

Take Ruger's unfortunately discontinued Old Army, that has a very justified reputation of being one of the most (if not the most) accurate C&B revolvers, out-of-the-box.

Bore groove diameter is .451", chamber diameter is .453" and recommended ball size is .457.

 

[mr wack]

Yes I understand that, it would be optimal to have the chambers .002 over groove dia.
I cast for all my cartridge guns and always size .002 over groove dia or as big as they will chamber easily..
Bumping the ball up to groove dia is as close as I'm going to get without having the chambers reamed and using a bigger ball, although if I was any good with my hands and had the right tools I would certainly do it.
It makes sense if a shooter wants optimum accuracy , and who doesn't ? .
Sadly my 51 will have to live with the hand it was dealt with,,.
Thanks for explaining it old fluff iv'e been casting for years but I'm a relative newbie to c&b's .

 

[Old Fuff]

Bumping the ball up to groove dia is as close as I'm going to get without having the chambers reamed and using a bigger ball, although if I was any good with my hands and had the right tools I would certainly do it.

You may, or may not get my point. In a metallic cartridge the bullet (unless way undersized, hard cast and with a solid base) is sized by the chamber throat no matter what it was when loaded into the cartridge case. That's why some recommend (including me) that if practical bullet diameter should match throat diameter, and if the throats are substantially smaller then the barrel's groove diameter the throats should be reamed or polished to match. If they are excessively oversized they're isn't anything you can do.

In a cap & ball revolver the ball (or bullet as the case may be) is sized when it's rammed into the chamber at the front end. Increasing the ball diameter simply makes it harder to ram into the chamber.

I'm not trying to ruin your fun, just explaining why a gunsmith with a set of pin reamers can open up the front of the chamber(s) after which you should find a increase in accuracy in exchange for very little work.

 

[midland man]

I use a rcbs case dedurring tool on my cylinders as I chamfer mine on all my c&b revolvers! this way it swags the ball or bullet and instead of shaving the projectils in which I get a better seal in the cylinders and more lead to seal to the bore plus I use corn meal as a filler to put the ball closer to the top of the cylinders in which makes them shoot very good!

 

[mr wack]

Old fluff so lets see if I have this right, if my groove dia is say .377 and I have the chambers opened up to .378 and use a .380 rb the ball will be sized/swaged back down to .378 making it .001 over groove/bore dia it's all good ?.
Am I close here or missing the train somewhere,,,.
I value your opinions, just trying to grasp this.

 

[Old Fuff]

You're very close.

Say you are casting .45 lead bullets that come out of the mold at .454" diameter (as cast). Then you run them through a bullet lube & size machine and they drop out sized to .452" diameter.

The same thing happens when you force a .380" round ball (or bullet) into the front end of a cap & ball revolver when the chamber is .378" . The chamber will act as a sizing die. Hopefully at this point they will match the groove diameter in the barrel.

 

[mr wack]

Ok got it now ,Thank you for clearing this fuzz out of my head.
By the way I size my H&G #68"s to .452 for my 1911.