1851 Navy DYI Cap Rake install

[Pocket]

I had been messing with the pocket revolvers and kinda forgot about my 1851 Navy 36 cal. ( Probably because it was no fun to shoot with cap jam after cap jam)

So since I am here at the house for a few days, ( I had hernia surgery yesterday ) I did some CPR on that Cap Jamming hunk of almost trout line weight.

This will be my 4th cap rake install.The first ones were done with the penny type cap rake. I had very good results with those. This time I drilled and tapped the rake hole and used a 6x 32 brass bolt. The whole project took me about 2 hours.
Here I have the hole drilled and tapped and now to cut down that bolt. Once I got the hammer notch expanded and the post the correct height it was screwed in with red loc'tite. A little clean up and it was ready to shoot.

I tested some caps first and I was getting the chills.. so far so good. Now came the true test. I RAN 50 rounds through this thing and not a single cap jam. You can see where the rake catches the spent caps and keeps them from falling in the action

It makes me wonder, how many folks were in the same boat as me. BUYING these things, changing nipples. Swapping caps, polishing, honing and finally those cap suckers are just put away.
This upgrade has really given me a shot of penicillin and renewed my interest in these guns.

Thank you 45 Dragoon and J-Bar


Randy

 

[45 Dragoon]

Great job!!
You are more than welcome Randy!!

Mike

 

[44 Dave]

I had been messing with the pocket revolvers and kinda forgot about my 1851 Navy 36 cal. ( Probably because it was no fun to shoot with cap jam after cap jam)

So since I am here at the house for a few days, ( I had hernia surgery yesterday ) I did some CPR on that Cap Jamming hunk of almost trout line weight.

This will be my 4th cap rake install.The first ones were done with the penny type cap rake. I had very good results with those. This time I drilled and tapped the rake hole and used a 6x 32 brass bolt. The whole project took me about 2 hours.
Here I have the hole drilled and tapped and now to cut down that bolt. Once I got the hammer notch expanded and the post the correct height it was screwed in with red loc'tite. A little clean up and it was ready to shoot.
View attachment 824903
I tested some caps first and I was getting the chills.. so far so good.View attachment 824905Now came the true test. I RAN 50 rounds through this thing and not a single cap jam. You can see where the rake catches the spent caps and keeps them from falling in the action
View attachment 824906
It makes me wonder, how many folks were in the same boat as me. BUYING these things, changing nipples. Swapping caps, polishing, honing and finally those cap suckers are just put away.
This upgrade has really given me a shot of penicillin and renewed my interest in these guns.

Thank you 45 Dragoon and J-Bar


Randy

My last 2 open tops got cap rakes before ever shooting. Mike is a good coach!

 

[J-Bar]

Well done, Pard! You are an inspiration!

 

[ShotgunDave]

I gotta tell ya, I've been putting this off. But you Sir, have ignited a fire under my lazy butt. I'm going to start getting these installed on all of my pistols. Thanks for showing us all that it can be done. Nice work!

 

[Pocket]

Ya know, the Cap Jam saga with these is similar to driving that old truck that needs an alignment. Over time we would just get used to it and before long that constant pull to the left becomes normal.

The same seems to apply to the never ending cap jams. I have watched hours and hours of you tube videos where these black powder revolvers get reviewed and with the open tops there is almost always a cap jam in the video.

For the first time since I got my first black powder gun about a year ago I can finally really practice shooting and hone my shooting skills.With out having to stop and clear a cap jam. That was soooooooooooooooooooooooo discouraging.

Now I have caught myself looking at more open tops to add to my collection.
There is just something about black powder hands.

 

[ShotgunDave]

Pocket, I couldn't agree more! These are not valuable collector's items, and they're never going to be. The fun is in the shooting and it's not much fun shooting if every other pull of the trigger results in a "click" instead of a "boom".

 

[1KPerDay]

So when you bring back the hammer for the next shot, what happens to that mangled exploded cap? Does it just fall off to the right?

 

[Pocket]

So when you bring back the hammer for the next shot, what happens to that mangled exploded cap? Does it just fall off to the right?

Most often it will feed out to the right. If it doesn't fall out it will rotate on around. BUT it does NOT blow back, suck back or fall off into the action.

 

[Navy Six 2]

Pocket, was there any concern about drilling the initial hole? In other words, about how deep did you drill the hole without breaking through as there isn't much material there in the frame on the Pocket Models. I realize this was a 51 Navy but I have followed your posts on the Pocket Models and those of mine are the ones that need the most help. I think you just convinced me to try the job. Your pictures and information are a big help.

 

[Pocket]

Pocket, was there any concern about drilling the initial hole? In other words, about how deep did you drill the hole without breaking through as there isn't much material there in the frame on the Pocket Models. I realize this was a 51 Navy but I have followed your posts on the Pocket Models and those of mine are the ones that need the most help. I think you just convinced me to try the job. Your pictures and information are a big help.

On my 1862, PP, 1848 WF and the Baby Dragoon I did the penny type rake.

On the 1851 I drilled all the way through the shoulder ( slow) then ran the tap all the way in. The brass screw went to the bottom of the hole and did not need any filing or grinding on the bottom side. I used a 6 x 32 tap and a 6 x 32 brass screw. For me, the key was to use a center punch to mark the spot where I wanted the post. ( the center punch is important or your bit will walk all over)

 

[1KPerDay]

can you explain the penny rake please

 

[Pocket]

I used J-Bar's video as a guide for the penny type rake.

 

[Pocket]

This is the hole I drilled and tapped on the 1851.

 

[Pocket]

If you do the penny type rake, don't be bashful or timid with the grinding disk and the dremel.

 

[Ironhand54]

Is there a tutorial for the post type mod?

Ironhand

 

[drobs]

I'm going to have to do one of these.

 

[arcticap]

Is there a tutorial for the post type mod?

Ironhand

Here's a tutorial about how to make a cap rake with a post.--->>> http://www.theopenrange.net/articles/colt_cap_and_ball.pdf
Some folks use a screw, others use a post.
The post can be steel or brass.
It can be secured by press fit, epoxy or with thread lock.
Every gun, model and installation method can be slightly different.
In this tutorial, the author recommends using the base end of the drill bit to make the rake and to achieve a press fit.

There's also other methods that people try before they install a cap rake.
One involves using aquarium tubing to hold their caps tight onto the nipples.
Another is the solid face hammer fix by Smokin'Joe to fill in the hammer gap which can help to keep
the caps from being pulled back into the action.--->>> [see post #11] https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-for-better-performance.756534/#post-9543579

Some folks only need better nipples and/or a stiffer mainspring.
Others have tried using JB Weld to fill in the hammer notch.

 

[Pocket]

I found this on You Tube. It may help explain the cap rake.

 

[woodnbow]

And still others are trouble free from the start. I’ve got two 1860’s one 1862 which run just fine. One of the 1860’s has had a bit of polishing on the hammer face and the other two pistols are stock. It’s worth a trip to the range to see if you may be leading a charmed existence... if not, the fix looks pretty easy to accomplish.

 

[Pocket]

And still others are trouble free from the start. I’ve got two 1860’s one 1862 which run just fine. One of the 1860’s has had a bit of polishing on the hammer face and the other two pistols are stock. It’s worth a trip to the range to see if you may be leading a charmed existence... if not, the fix looks pretty easy to accomplish.

I have a small shooting range set up in my pasture so I get to shoot as much as I want. Since putting these Cap Rakes on, I find myself pouring more lead. I mess with alot of DYI projects but these Cap Rakes have been the most rewarding with instant results.

 

[arcticap]

I thought that Smokin'Joe's fix of making the flat hammer face using a screw was quite ingenious.
It makes sense if the cause is the gap in the hammer to begin with.

That's why for some it's a combination of nipples, hammer and/or mainspring.
But when that doesn't work the cap rake seems to be the only other solution.

I would like people's opinion about it, and about some mentioning in that same thread that JB Weld in the hammer gap worked for them.--->>> https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...r-for-better-performance.756534/#post-9543579

If a flat hammer can work then why not try it as an option of 1st alteration after no alteration?
It's a relatively invisible alteration, and if it works what's wrong with trying it after trying the non-altering methods?

I suppose that there could be tolerance issues with any individual gun that can make some attempts for simple fixes simply unsuccessful.

 

[Pocket]

All I know, is I am a believer in the Cap Rakes for these open tops. The cost for the parts is next to nothing and you still get to use the safety stop pins.

I had read about them last year, but I to, was hesitant to go to drilling or grinding on one of these. My goal was to keep the caps out of the action. From my perspective this works.

 

[arcticap]

I can appreciate that and am generally supportive about doing whatever one can to fix it.
But how come the Remington 1858's don't have that problem?

 

[Pocket]

I am not a Gun Smith by any stretch , but I would venture to say that the1858s have a smaller window, that the hammer has to reach through to get to the cap. The 1858 window has a top where as the Colt types do not have that extra protection. Or maybe the Remington was a better design.