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Making Cap Jams History one revolver at a time.

Discussion in 'Blackpowder' started by Pocket, Feb 9, 2019.

  1. Pocket

    Pocket Member

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    It's me again. After getting involved with these black powder revolvers it was very disappointing.
    Tell me if this sounds familiar. We see an inexpensive black powder gun for sale. Not knowing anything about them and we believe everything we have heard about all the cowboy history behind them. We bite the bullet. By the time we get home, we have dropped a couple hundred dollars. Powder, caps, holster, powder measuring tools, lube butter, wads, and round balls.

    We are excited about owning this new piece of history. Now the journey begins..

    We hit the innerweb, sign up on forums and start reading. There is good stuff on these forums. And alot to learn. How to load, how to strip one down, what balls to use and on and on.

    Range day.. we load up and quickly say to our selves, Dam, I spent all this money and this POS won't even get 6 rounds off without jamming.

    Soooo, we read somemore, folks tell us, buy this, buy that, try this, try that. We end up dropping another 75 dollars or so buying after market nipples, and different caps.

    Oh ---man ,, I got this now... this thing is finally going to shoot. NOT.....
    It still has cap jams. NOW WE ARE losing interest. The excitement is gone.

    So we read somemore on these forums, watch hours of You Tube videos and we still have this hunk of metal that is useless other than wall art.

    We have read about this thing called a cap rake.. but by then we have already dropped a ton of money and have probably bought another one.. only to have TWO cap Jamming revolvers now..
    That's it. !!!!!! not another dime more..

    Then this cap rake thing circles back around.. OK, do I DYI or pay somebody. MY THINKING was, it is a POS as it is, why not try to DYI. I had nothing to lose except some time.

    I have done 4 of mine now and all have been a succes.

    In the video I show 3.
    1851Navy Pietta it has the Slixshot nipples Honed and polished and still jammed. This one has the threaded post installed. The video shows me having trouble with my left thumb pulling the hammer back. I have been practicing cocking with my left thumb to keep less gun movement in between shots.
    As you see no Cap Jams.

    The middle one is the Uberti 1862 Pocket Police. At first this was going to be my favorite. But the cap jams almost destined it to be trout line weight.
    I had to do alot to this. The loading lever needed work, it kept dropping down in between jams. It also had aftermarket nipples and was honed. Not until I put the Penny style rake on, did I fall back in love with this one.

    The last one is the 1849 Uberti Wells Fargo. I was not shocked or dispointed when I got this one. It Jammed right out of the box. It got the regulation issue aftermarket nipples and the penny style cap rake.

     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2019
    drobs, 45 Dragoon, arcticap and 2 others like this.
  2. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

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    easiest way to avoid cap jams is to get an 1858 :), so spend ore money!, thanks for the writeup
     
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  3. Pocket

    Pocket Member

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    Already have one on they way from DGW.

    When you have had one that jams, it's kinda like the wife cheating...ya ,never get over it. I really enjoy shooting these now. But I am gonna get the 1858. My little Pietta Remington Pocket has not jammed yet in a year now.
     
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  4. mjsdwash

    mjsdwash Member

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    my 58 works so well, its mostly like a modern revolver, with some weird loading process. Its really easy to clean with real black powder. While the story is true that the 58s jam from fouling faster, they are very fast to wipe down. Real black powder is very easy to clean off of them, and even if not cleaned all that well, it doesn't rust like the substitutes. Fouling stays in the cylinder window and loading lever mechanism.
     
  5. expat_alaska

    expat_alaska Member

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    I only have/shoot Pietta 1851 Navy type pistols, whether or not they are repro Colt Navies or Confederate copies.

    Duellist1954 does a fair job at addressing this:



    I am going to recommend a procedure that many folks here and elsewhere have disdained, but it works for me.

    After firing the first shot from a replica 1851 Navy, raise the gun with the barrel at 10 o'clock, turn it to the right, and cock the pistol. The spent cap should fall off cleanly and not fall into the action.

    Most people act as if it is modern cartridge pistol which could not be farther from the truth.

    Your call.

    Regards,

    Jim
     
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  6. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    While the "Colt wave" may work for some, it may be considered "slightly" dangerous by today's standards. Mainly because you're pointing it up and an accidental discharge may send a projectile ". . . . I know not where". Today it's verboten to have your finger touching the trigger in a picture (even if it's unloaded!!) much less pointing a revolver " . . into the air" . (Jim, this isn't personally directed at you)
    I point this out mainly because since we do shoot these revolvers in the same manner as modern revolvers, we have the ability to do so. It may involve some form of a cap post but it's been proven to work and work very well! The cowboy shooters have been shooting with cap posts for years!
    With other enhancements, they can can be as reliable as any modern S.A. and last every bit as long.
    Even the Remington, as of late, has been able to have a coil spring conversion for the action (you're welcome!) and (with the other enhancements) is just as tough and reliable as a ROA without the extra weight!!
    So, without having to adjust shooting techniques (depending on the era depicted of revolver ) it may make for a safer shooter and a more enjoyable session?

    Mike
     
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  7. J-Bar

    J-Bar Member

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    Pointing the muzzle up is going to get Cowboy Action shooter disqualified. Not a good option in competition.
     
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  8. Pocket

    Pocket Member

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    I have watched every video that Duallist1954 has put on You Tube. I have seen him evolve from JB Weld on the hammer to the honing and deberring process. I also have evolved, I am a believer in the Cap Rakes on these Colt replicas.

    I have been able to turn these 4 black powder guns, at little to nothing for the cost of parts, into actual shooters. I would bet there alot of guys like me that have struggled with these things for awhile, only to be a big dissapoinment and moving onto something else.
     
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  9. 44 Dave

    44 Dave Member

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    Just wish these guns had the barrel bushing to deflect fouling. Have seen pictures of the major machine skill to add this to a Remington. Thanks to Mikes advice on tight cylinder/barrel gap my open tops are not as bothered as my Rems..
     
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  10. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Since cowboy action has been mentioned, you're not allowed external mods (such as bushings). If you can't see it, it's OK kinda thing. So, on a Remington, you can grind a ring on the base pin right at the front of the cyl. Slightly shallow (but pointed like letter A) on the very top but deeper as it goes around. Then about a quarter inch back, make another ring but roughly the same depth all the way. Obviously, the underside of the base pin is flat so you don't need to continue the ring on the bottom.
    Now, connect the front ring to the back ring with 4 left to right diagonal grooves. From the back side of the rear ring, reduce the diameter of base pin slightly for about 1/2 - 3/4 of the rest of the way back. The rear of the cylinder needs support so make sure you stop well before you reach the length of the cylinder!!
    What this mod does is give a path for fouling to bypass the cyl/base pin intersect with the front ring. What fouling you do get can be accumulated in the diagonals you cut and as you cycle the action, will be forced to the rear where the reduced area is.
    Those of you familiar with the ROA's base pin will be familiar with the reduced dia.of the base pin (that's where I got it from!)
    20181218_161910.jpg
    Mike
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  11. Pocket

    Pocket Member

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    If it is not proprietary, is there a pic of this.

    Thanks
    Randy
     
  12. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    I did.
    Mike
     
  13. Pocket

    Pocket Member

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    Oh wow,,, I don't see myself doing that.. That looks like a job above my DYI stuff.

    Thank you
     
  14. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Oh sure you can! Sounds "involved" but it's easy. If you can drill, tap, install and dress a cap post and clearance the hammer for it, you can put some grooves on a pin . . . lol!!

    Mike
     
    north east redneck likes this.
  15. woodnbow

    woodnbow Member

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    Great little modifications there Mike, almost as cheap as the penny cap rake.
    Or you could just buy an Old Army and it’s already done! Even if you can’t put the grooves on the pin, I’ll bet you can write a check...;)
     
  16. skeeterfogger

    skeeterfogger Member

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    I've found a quick twisting shake right at cocking helps a lot to stop cap jams.
     
  17. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Skeeter, the 5th, 6th, and 7th post already addressed this.

    Mike
     
  18. skeeterfogger

    skeeterfogger Member

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    Well good for you. You can count.
     
  19. 45 Dragoon

    45 Dragoon Member

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    Skeeter,
    Not really, the posts are numbered (lower right corner. Dangit!! Now everybody knows!!!).

    Mike
     
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  20. Pocket

    Pocket Member

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    For me after the cap rake mods, it is like getting to the end of the internet. There is nothing else to say or do. THEY WORK.

    It was dissapointing to have had spent all this money on these guns and not able to really enjoy them because of the cap jams.

    These mods have made my experience with these open tops as the best !!!!
     
    drobs likes this.
  21. snubnose57

    snubnose57 Member

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    I have done what Duellist1954 to all my Colt revolvers. No more cap jams. My theory is that Colt removed those sharp edges at the factory, back in the day. The makers of replica revolvers are not aware of this important step, or skip it to save costs. If cap jams happened as often in the old days as they do now, there is little (to me) documentation as being a common occurrence.
     
  22. 44 Dave

    44 Dave Member

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    Have seen a couple original Colts and the safety pin notch in the hammer is very small.
     
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