1858 Remington end shake - need your help.

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

Hello,



I can get this beauty at absurd price but there is a but. The reason for a low price is enormous end shake this revolver used to have. It was 'fixed' by glueing a proper width shim to the end of the frame thus reducing the end shake. It seems that JB Weld was used.

See:


As of now the gun works just fine, cylinder gap is ~0.0040", no noticeable endshake. However I have serious doubts about the ruggedness of this solution.

I'd like to hear if anyone of you tried fixing end shake this way? If so was it any good in the long term? Or just don't bother with this gun?

Thanks!

 

[hawg]

I have my doubts about JB Weld holding up. I'm thinking it has the wrong cylinder in it.

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

(deleted)

 

[Black Jack Shellac]

The shim can work.I made one for my rem brasser. It had a .016 gap.the shim cut that down to .005. Me being me I had to do the other thing.That is remove the barrel and set it back one turn. Make adjustments to the barrel face and done. I just barely got by with the lever latch not needing to be changed.. I like the 58 Remy guns. If your looking to sell.
Black Jack Shellac

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

The shim can work.I made one for my rem brasser. It had a .016 gap.the shim cut that down to .005. Me being me I had to do the other thing.That is remove the barrel and set it back one turn. Make adjustments to the barrel face and done. I just barely got by with the lever latch not needing to be changed.. I like the 58 Remy guns. If your looking to sell.
Black Jack Shellac

How did you attach the shim to the brass? Glue or something else?

Anyways, did the shim remain attached to the frame after dozens of shots? My worry is that repetetive hits to the shim will cause the JB weld underneath to get crushed and then shim will simply fall off at one point.

 

[45 Dragoon]

Nope.

Mike

 

[Black Jack Shellac]

The shim was not glued or attached. That made it tricky to keep it in place when the cylinder was inserted. It could have stayed with that except I can't leave anything alone..
Black Jack Shellac

 

[hawg]

How did you attach the shim to the brass? Glue or something else?

Anyways, did the shim remain attached to the frame after dozens of shots? My worry is that repetetive hits to the shim will cause the JB weld underneath to get crushed and then shim will simply fall off at one point.

You can drill and tap or silver solder.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

Hey Mike, elaborate please! My thoughts are one would need to set the barrel back but you have a different solution I wanna know!

 

[45 Dragoon]

Hey Mike, elaborate please! My thoughts are one would need to set the barrel back but you have a different solution I wanna know!

Well, set back would be best but I'd try to find a correct or longer cylinder first. For me, it would be a cartridge conversion anyway so there's another fix. The spacer in place allows much less recoil bearing surface than is normal for Remington cylinders (powder puff loads are probably fine but how fun is that?!!!). Also, the hand has to extend forward more than normal which surly affects timing / cycling.
Like Hawg suggested, if a suitable cylinder can't be found, barrel set back is definitely the way to go. You could incorporate a "gas ring" or bushing at that time.

I wonder if the op could let us know the make . . .

Mike

 

[hawg]

I wonder if the op could let us know the make . . .

I believe he said ASP but he deleted the post.

 

[45 Dragoon]

I believe he said ASP but he deleted the post.

Looking at the top pic again, it looks a little weird. I don't see any barrel threads or much of the normal cutaway. It's almost non-existant ( a la Beals). It may be "too good a price" for a reason!!

Mike

 

[hawg]

I think that's ASP's version of a Beals.

 

[AlexanderA]

I have my doubts about JB Weld holding up. I'm thinking it has the wrong cylinder in it.

I think that's ASP's version of a Beals.

I agree with both of these comments. Since we're talking about fore-and-aft movement of the cylinder, the most likely explanation is simply that it's the wrong cylinder.

And that looks like a Euroarms (Armi San Paolo, or ASP). I have one, and the covered barrel threads (Beals-like) are an identifying characteristic of this model.

An Uberti cylinder should work in this. But it might matter what vintage of Uberti cylinder. Measure the length of the cylinder opening in the gun, and send that information to VTI Gun Parts and see if they can provide a match.

ETA: I just measured 2 ASP cylinders, that fit well, with no end play. Length is 2.05".

My 2 Uberti cylinders (2011 vintage) are a hair shorter, at 2.00" overall length. So an Uberti cylinder will fit in an ASP, but not the other way around.

The locking notches on the Uberti cylinders are a bit wider than those on the ASP cylinders. This could possibly give you too much rotational play.

I suspect that the OP's original problem is that someone popped in an Uberti cylinder of the wrong vintage.

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

Well, set back would be best but I'd try to find a correct or longer cylinder first. For me, it would be a cartridge conversion anyway so there's another fix. The spacer in place allows much less recoil bearing surface than is normal for Remington cylinders (powder puff loads are probably fine but how fun is that?!!!). Also, the hand has to extend forward more than normal which surly affects timing / cycling.
Like Hawg suggested, if a suitable cylinder can't be found, barrel set back is definitely the way to go. You could incorporate a "gas ring" or bushing at that time.

I wonder if the op could let us know the make . . .

Mike

The timing is OK. No issue there. It is EUROARMS imported ASP revolver.
Guys, it is a $99 revolver, I don't know if there is a point in putting amy more work to it. The gunsmith's fee would probably be more than what the gun is worth in the first place.

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

Looking at the top pic again, it looks a little weird. I don't see any barrel threads or much of the normal cutaway. It's almost non-existant ( a la Beals). It may be "too good a price" for a reason!!

Mike

More pics:

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

I agree with both of these comments. Since we're talking about fore-and-aft movement of the cylinder, the most likely explanation is simply that it's the wrong cylinder.

And that looks like a Euroarms (Armi San Paolo, or ASP). I have one, and the covered barrel threads (Beals-like) are an identifying characteristic of this model.

An Uberti cylinder should work in this. But it might matter what vintage of Uberti cylinder. Measure the length of the cylinder opening in the gun, and send that information to VTI Gun Parts and see if they can provide a match.

ETA: I just measured 2 ASP cylinders, that fit well, with no end play. Length is 2.05".

My 2 Uberti cylinders (2011 vintage) are a hair shorter, at 2.00" overall length. So an Uberti cylinder will fit in an ASP, but not the other way around.

The locking notches on the Uberti cylinders are a bit wider than those on the ASP cylinders. This could possibly give you too much rotational play.

I suspect that the OP's original problem is that someone popped in an Uberti cylinder of the wrong vintage.

See post above, it is a genuine ASP cylinder. It has reamed chamber mouths just as any ASP would.

Cylinder length is 2.048" and frame opening is 2.062". Shim is ~.014".

 

[AlexanderA]

Well, hell. It might be a stretched frame then, or you simply got a bad sample of a frame. Using the shim was probably the best that could be done.

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

Well, hell. It might be a stretched frame then, or you simply got a bad sample of a frame. Using the shim was probably the best that could be done.

I don't have an issue with the shim itself but that it is JB-Welded. I'll look into how it can be drilled and taped.

 

[hawg]

it is a genuine ASP cylinder. It has reamed chamber mouths just as any ASP would.

I'm not aware of any factory reamed ASP chambers. What do they measure? Does it shave a lead ring?

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

I'm not aware of any factory reamed ASP chambers. What do they measure? Does it shave a lead ring?

Only the very top of the chamber is reamed ("chamber mouth"). It doesn't shave a lead ring, it swaggs the bullet.

 

[44 Dave]

Only the very top of the chamber is reamed ("chamber mouth"). It doesn't shave a lead ring, it swaggs the bullet.

chamfered

 

[mjsdwash]

no joke, superglue.
Look around and you'll find lots of people super glue the arbor back into brass frame colt patterns. I have a superglued piece of aluminum attached to the front sight of a semiauto thats seem many rounds since. Holds just fine.
If it were me though, I would make the shim fit over the pin so it didn't need glue

 

[SomebodyMakeRiderRepro]

no joke, superglue.
Look around and you'll find lots of people super glue the arbor back into brass frame colt patterns. I have a superglued piece of aluminum attached to the front sight of a semiauto thats seem many rounds since. Holds just fine.
If it were me though, I would make the shim fit over the pin so it didn't need glue

It is JB-welded. You can't really fit it over the pin because it would block the hand slot.

 

[Jackrabbit1957]

I think I would leave it alone for now, the real solutions are get the right cylinder.... less costly or set the barrel back, more costly but most likely the best bet. Considering what the OP paid for it he still has some wiggle room to fix it compared to the cost of a new revolver.