1873 Cap & Ball guns

[ArmedBear]

Pietta and Uberti make them, from what I know.

Anyone have one?

How does it differ from a regular SAA? Is the frame reamed out to fit a bigger hammer surface?

How does the hammer line up with the nipples? What does the firing pin or surface look like?

Is there anything that would keep you from swapping the cylinder from one of those into a regular centerfire SAA clone from the same maker in an appropriate caliber?

 

[mykeal]

Yep, got one


What I don't have is the cartridge version to compare it to.

I don't believe the frame has been changed to accommodate a bigger hammer.

There is a firing pin on the hammer surface but it is offset to the right side. The frame has a hole on the right side of the hammer channel that lines up with the firing pin, and the nipple lines up with that hole when the hammer is at full cock and the cylinder is in battery.

I do not believe the cylinders are interchangeable between the percussion version and the cartridge version. I believe the percussion cylinder has an offset built into it that corresponds with that in the hammer and frame.

 

[flibuste]

Hello,

Pietta is also manufacturing one (see on Dixie). Even so the cylinders could be swapped, the twist of the barrel is very slow (for ball) and it would not stabilize a bullet.

I have been said that it was possible to adapt a cartridge cylinder but did not experienced it personally.

See you

 

[mike101]

I had one for a day or two. I sent it back. You would have to drill out the hole in the frame that the hammer nose passes through, from a semi-circle, to a full circle. Then, you would have to get a hammer from one of the cartridge guns.

 

[flibuste]

"You would have to drill out the hole in the frame that the hammer nose passes through, from a semi-circle, to a full circle".

Would not the hole be then too large and permit the cap of the cartridge to move back and seize the cylinder ? Would it be necessary to weld some metal to diminish the size of the hole in the frame ?

regards

 

[mykeal]

Here's the geometry:



The "firing pin" is actually an oblong pin that fits in a slot; the slot is offset to the right side of a circular depression in the hammer channel. The cylinder is indexed to line up with the slot (the round feature in the center of the slot is the nipple) when the hammer is at full cock. The nipple is in the center of the chamber, so that means the entire chamber is slightly off center when in battery; thus the frame is modified to place the barrel breach slightly offset to match the cylinder. All this prevents the use of a cartridge cylinder, since I do not believe it has the offset, nor does the hammer or frame for the cartridge version. But, since I don't have the cartridge version, I'm just speculating here.

Now, if someone would like to buy me one...

 

[deadin]

Pardon my ignorance, but why would anybody want a C&B 1873 SAA?
It wouldn't qualify as a "replica" because it never existed in the first place.

???????????

 

[mykeal]

Pardon my ignorance, but why would anybody want a C&B 1873 SAA?
It wouldn't qualify as a "replica" because it never existed in the first place.

Because, as bad as we think we have it here in the US with anti-gun laws, there are places on the planet that are much worse off, such as the UK. They cannot own a cartridge handgun. Period. End of discussion. They can, with much crawling through broken glass, get a permit to own a black powder handgun, and if one wants a gun that at least looks like the famous guns used in the old west, well, this is one way to do it.

It's a PITA to load (you have to remove the cylinder and use a loading stand), it is absolutely diabolical when it comes to shedding spent caps (the only place they'll go is between the cylinder and the frame, jamming the action) and the ejection rod is completely useless, cosmetic only. But for some, it's all they can get.

 

[deadin]

Thanks for the answer. Makes sense from a foreign point of view, but why do you have one?

 

[mykeal]

Thanks for the answer. Makes sense from a foreign point of view, but why do you have one?

I got a chance to buy an unusual gun at a very good price. You very rarely see one of these in the US, and it was a cherry gun at a cheap price. I'm easy when it comes to a deal like that.

I should also mention that I lived in the UK (Edinburgh) for several years for business, and got to experience their laws and their processes first hand. I was there when Dunblane happened, and experienced the agony and hysteria that followed. We really do have it pretty good here.

 

[flibuste]

Hello,

The Pietta one is very similar but the nipples are not located at the center of the chambers so that the barrel and chambers are still in the normal position.

In France you need special authorization to get a cartridge pistol but cap and ball are still available . More precisely all cap and ball used to be available but since a few years they have to reproduce real pistols of the past. Hence Buckhunter or Colt 1873 retroconversion for instances are no more available new ; you can get them second hand but with high prices.

If you want a cartridge pistol, you apply for special authorization which has to be renewed every 3 years ; if for any reason this authorization is not renewed ( no reason has to be given by the state) you may either get the gun destroyed (free) or inactivated ( cost 200$ but you keep it) or sell it within 3 months. So basically you are only a loaner of your gun.

As for cap and ball, they are not registered and so they are really yours....

That's France !! However it seems that the situation is worse in our neighbours.

Bye the way you have to be very careful with chain fire : the rear of the frame is very tight (contrary to others) and if one cap happen to be missing ( because it has fallen for instance) the flame of ignition will circulate all around at the back and ignite easily the chamber without cap.

I have shoot a lot with various cap and ball ( Colt, Rem, R§S) without chainfire, but with this gun and a main spring too weak that made me repeat triggering to fire the caps (and I suspect that some fall by the way)I experienced 2 chainfires within short distance !!!! One broke the cylinder pin latch.......

For information, the Pietta gun from Dixie are very well made and the finish is perfect

Bye