Ran into an older gentleman last evening as I was wondering around a local gun shop, with a couple 1909 Argentines he was trying to sale to the shop. The owner wasn't too keen on buying them because he couldn't guess what they might be because of no caliber markings. Guy was only wanting $125 each, but gun shop guy was offering only $50. One of the rifles was a longer mauser, and the other one was one of the carbines. I managed to catch the guy outside as he was putting them into his trunk and told him I might be interested in them. As it was raining at the time, I didn't want to keep him, and didn't have a lot of time to inspect the rifles, etc, but they looked mint. He said he hadn't even fired them and owned them for 25-30 yrs. He didn't know caliber as well, but said he might have some ammo at home. Would anyone know if there would be import marks on these rifles thereby making them more collectable, etc.? I have some old American Rifleman magazines from late 50's and early 60's showing a lot of the old surplus rifles for sale back then and am guessing this might have been one of those. Also would there be any reason NOT to go after one or both of these ? The long rifle over the carbine ?
1909 Argentine Mauser info needed.
- Thread starter Jspy
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dfariswheel
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Unless these are rusted and pitted out wrecks GRAB THEM ALL.
The DWM 1909 Argentine is almost certainly the finest quality Mauser rifle ever built, anywhere, by anyone.
Caliber is the 7.65 Argentine, although a number were re-chambered to 30/06.
The 30/06 is smaller than the 7.65 Argy so accuracy often isn't the best.
The '09 is the only military Mauser built with the full commercial features of the hinged floor plate, a pear-shaped bolt knob and a near commercial-level finish.
Original '09's made in Germany by DWM are better finished INSIDE than most modern guns are OUTSIDE.
There are about 0% machine marks, and the bluing under the wood rivals current pistol bluing.
The rifles had 29" barrels and straight bolt handles.
The Cavalry carbine had a 21" barrel, a turned down bolt handle, and a straight grip stock, going all the way to the muzzle.
I read an article from a 1980's Guns & Ammo Annual about why custom gunsmiths prefer to use Mauser actions as the basis for expensive sporters.
The author said that to duplicate the quality of the 1909 Argentine would cost at least $3000.00, and this was in the 80's.
The '09 is prized and hunted even today for use as a sporter action.
As a military collectible, the '09 makes all the Yugo and Belgian Mauser's look like SKS's compared to a Weatherby.
If the rifles are recent imports, they will be stamped on the barrel near the muzzle.
Many '09's were imported years ago, and are not marked. These unmarked rifles are worth more, simply since they don't have the import stamps.
No BS, finding a couple of '09's in really great shape is one of those fabulous finds we all read about, but never have happen to us.
So, unless these are wrecks. GET AHOLD OF THIS GUY, and BUY ALL he has.
The DWM 1909 Argentine is almost certainly the finest quality Mauser rifle ever built, anywhere, by anyone.
Caliber is the 7.65 Argentine, although a number were re-chambered to 30/06.
The 30/06 is smaller than the 7.65 Argy so accuracy often isn't the best.
The '09 is the only military Mauser built with the full commercial features of the hinged floor plate, a pear-shaped bolt knob and a near commercial-level finish.
Original '09's made in Germany by DWM are better finished INSIDE than most modern guns are OUTSIDE.
There are about 0% machine marks, and the bluing under the wood rivals current pistol bluing.
The rifles had 29" barrels and straight bolt handles.
The Cavalry carbine had a 21" barrel, a turned down bolt handle, and a straight grip stock, going all the way to the muzzle.
I read an article from a 1980's Guns & Ammo Annual about why custom gunsmiths prefer to use Mauser actions as the basis for expensive sporters.
The author said that to duplicate the quality of the 1909 Argentine would cost at least $3000.00, and this was in the 80's.
The '09 is prized and hunted even today for use as a sporter action.
As a military collectible, the '09 makes all the Yugo and Belgian Mauser's look like SKS's compared to a Weatherby.
If the rifles are recent imports, they will be stamped on the barrel near the muzzle.
Many '09's were imported years ago, and are not marked. These unmarked rifles are worth more, simply since they don't have the import stamps.
No BS, finding a couple of '09's in really great shape is one of those fabulous finds we all read about, but never have happen to us.
So, unless these are wrecks. GET AHOLD OF THIS GUY, and BUY ALL he has.
Cosmoline
Member
Ditto on that. The '09's are much harder to find than the '91's and are quite collectible. The Argentine military didn't dump as many on the surplus market, and indeed kept quite a few in their aresenal. Get both. They are a steal at those prices, esp. the carbine.
For collecting, the less done to the rifle, the better. The South American Mauser collectors are quite serious and take umbrage even at a cleaning. So do nothing to them other than a bit of oil and gun stock wax. I would advise strongly against sporterizing unless they're already hacked up and their collectors value ruined. These are one type of vintage rifle with a real potential to go up in value. The quality, rarity and collectors' market are all there.
For collecting, the less done to the rifle, the better. The South American Mauser collectors are quite serious and take umbrage even at a cleaning. So do nothing to them other than a bit of oil and gun stock wax. I would advise strongly against sporterizing unless they're already hacked up and their collectors value ruined. These are one type of vintage rifle with a real potential to go up in value. The quality, rarity and collectors' market are all there.
Tamara
Senior Member
If they're in even Very Good condition, those prices are a steal for a very collectable milsurp. Even if they're bubba-ized wrecks, the actions are worth that for eventual use as the platforms for custom rifles...
That might be a little optomistic, but these are very good rifles and actions. I would make sure they're not pitted and grab them all if they are in good condition. The advice you have already gotten on values is right on and the actions alone are worth the price.
I would correct the quote to be: one of a short list of the finest quality. Small point but there are a handful of others that rate up there with these. These are excellent actions and do display the hieght of quality in milsurp mausers.
You will be sorry if you pass on these, details on the carbine would be nice, that could be very collectable. What a moron at your gun shop that didn't know the caliber, why can't I find a dealer as dumb as that ( never mind on second thought thats probably a bad idea
) And there is absolutly nothing wrong with the 7.65 Argentine its between a 30-40 Krag and a 30-06 and actually a very good cartridge.
A word of caution, these not being caliber marked is a flag in my mind. The Germans marked everything, look closely if you buy these, they were almost anal about this, bolts, parts were all marked with SN's, proof marks. They should be marked. If they don't have markings these might have been rechambered or or rebarreled and I would have a chamber cast done to verify they are 7.65x53.
Built a sporter for my son on one some years back. By the time I had done my homework in the Kuhnhausen book and gotten a real insight into the 1909 Argentine I was truly impressed. The rifle came out well and I told my son that he would never own a better made action.
I would walk over burning coals to pick up a couple more '09 actions.
I would walk over burning coals to pick up a couple more '09 actions.
cracked butt
Member
Wow! The guy at the gunshop was either a crook or a moron... possibly both.
Clemson
Member
If you don't buy both, send me contact info and I will.
Clemson
Clemson
ballistic gelatin
Member
I bought a 1909 Argentine in FANTASTIC condition a year or so ago for $75 (made in Berlin). It has one nick on the stock and the bolt is turned down. Downside = gunshows are my only source for ammo.
WOW, those are some good responses. I do have the guys phone number and will give him a call. In our short conversation he told me he has some other rifles as well, including an early Springfield he used for reinactments, an M1 and M1 Carbine, '03,Krag-Jorgenson, and others. Maybe I have a chance on the mother-load. I will report my progress. Thanks 
Tamara
Senior Member
Farnham,
Both, but the ones we're raving about are the German-made weapons. We know that the Argentine state arsenal produced some 85,000, but the total production figures from DWM and Ludwig Loewe are unknown, since their corporate offices were sorta downrange during Dubya Dubya Two, and emerged a little worse for wear.
Both, but the ones we're raving about are the German-made weapons. We know that the Argentine state arsenal produced some 85,000, but the total production figures from DWM and Ludwig Loewe are unknown, since their corporate offices were sorta downrange during Dubya Dubya Two, and emerged a little worse for wear.
Bwana John
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Only one thing, actually two, price and availabity of ammunition.
(try J&G Sales)
Federal, Remington, Winchester, Norma, and even PMC make ammo in the 7.65X53. Now whether its stocked and the price of, I haven't a clue, but it is available. It might end up being mail order, but I am sure it can be hunted down. J&G sales had an advertisement in Shotgun News for milsurp 7.65, a few months ago,.
Gordon
Member
I'd also take out a loan and buy in this order: The M-1 carbine,The M-1 rifle, the argentine carbine and the rifle the rifle, the krag and the spring field.
So guess who is the new owner of a couple 1909 Argentines? Finally got a chance to catch up with the guy trying to sale them over the weekend. He wanted a little more after getting some interest at a couple other shops, but all in all, I think I did OK. The rifle looks to be all original, with matching #s on various locations, including stock. The carbine looks the same, but not sure about stock on that one. Also no import markings. No luck on getting the M1 or M1 Carbine. He also has an Enfield and a couple Italians, and an Arisaka he's looking to get rid of soon. Also managed to get a box of Norma ammo in the deal. These rifles seem to be in great shape, and I can't wait to try them out.
jefnvk
Member
If you don't mind corrosive, mil-surp ammo for your gun: http://www.sportsmansguide.com/cb/cb.asp?a=151280
Sounds like you got a good deal. I have seen one Argie before, but it is sporterized. Still a very nice rifle.
Just goes to show that you don't find surplus rifles, they find you.
Sounds like you got a good deal. I have seen one Argie before, but it is sporterized. Still a very nice rifle.
Just goes to show that you don't find surplus rifles, they find you.
Clemson
Member
You just started your collection right -- with two of the finest Mausers ever made.
Congratulations!
Clemson
Congratulations!
Clemson
Thanks for the ammo link jefnvk, looks like a good price. I will start checking some other online sources. I know a lot of people on gun boards who will use the corrosive ammo, but so far I haven't went that route. Bought a bunch of the Turkish ammo for my 8MM Mauser, but haven't taken the plunge yet.
Don't be too sure about surplus 7.65x54 ammo being corrosive. Some is, but I have a bunch dated 1975 with boxes that clearly say "Fulminante no corrosivo", or "non-corrosive priming".
Stuff is dirty and looks old, but works fine, and it really is "no corrosivo."
Jim
Stuff is dirty and looks old, but works fine, and it really is "no corrosivo."
Jim
Tamara
Senior Member
*jogs to batcave*
*jogs back to keyboard*
Gee, so it does! Thanks, Jim! That Norma was gettin' 'spensive.
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