1911 and CZ52 Range Trip

[anapex]

Ok so I take my newly accessorized 1911 and my CZ52 to the range and did completely horrible with both. The CZ52 I can somewhat explain away since it was my first time out with it. Man those sights are small but the recoil was nothing like I was expecting, relatively light compared to what I was expecting. Does anyone else have trouble with your grip on the CZ52 turning the safety on? Or atleast turning it half on so you get a really light strike?

Now on to my 1911 problems so I had added slim carry grips and a flat mainspring housing to it since I last shot it. Now last time it functioned flawlessly, this time every 3-4 rounds it would jam up. Same jam everytime failure to extract the empty so the next round from the magazine would come up in to it. So is it an extractor problem or could I be limping wristing or some similar grip related problem by having a wierd grip on the gun due to the new grips and mainspring housing? Dang forgot to add to that I was trying out three new mccormick magazines. So add those to the possible problems. On a happier note, it feeds hollowpoints fine!

 

[1911Tuner]

Jammin' Jenny

Howdy anapex,

Your problem sounds like an extractor issue. Since the gun ran last time out, and didn't this time, it means that somethin' has changed. It's not
likely your grip. I don't give much credence to the "Limp Grip Induced Malfunction Theory" anyway. I think that's a cop-out for a manufacturer/ builder who either can't set the pistol up right, or just doesn't want to be bothered with it. I've proven it too many times.

It's either your extractor tension or the hook has worn to the point that
it can't get a bite on the rims...Both are issues dealing with the steel used
and/or heat treatment of the extractor.

There's also a possibility that the extractor is clocking in the channel,
and dropping the case regardless of the amount of tension. This one
usually results in a crunched case, and usually on the last round. In
extreme examples, the empty case can actually be reloaded into the magazine...either partially or all the way to the back wall.

If you'll describe the malfunction in a little more detail, we might be able to
get it nailed down a little closer, and go from there.

Standin' by...

Tuner

 

[anapex]

Ok here goes for my attempt at a better description of the problem. After firing the empty case will stay in the chamber and the next round of the magazine will start to get stripped off and then jam in to the case still in the chamber. Never seems to happen on the last round, always somewhere between round 1 and round 8. Let me know if you need more.

 

[duckfoot]

Any funny marks on the case rim that is left in the chamber, if ya got one? Brand of ammo? Tight chamber, maybe? Any problems with feeding? If I had to guess I'd say not enough extractor tension, but I'll defer to mister Tuner, since what I know, he showed me anyway. My marksmanship is strong, but my pistolsmithing is weak.

 

[1911Tuner]

re:

Howdy anapex,

That sounds like your extractor tension has taken a powder. If it's a
stock SPringfield extractor, it may never hold tension for very long. Not
a shot at Springfield...just a bad lot of extractors that have been showin'
up from time to time.

Retension it and see if the problem goes away. If it does, it was the tension. If it doesn't, the hook is worn. If it's a SPringfield, order a
good extractor. C&S...Brown Hardcore..or Wilson BUlletproof, in order
of preference.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[Norton]

Sounds like the exact thing that happens with my .22lr handguns. I've always attributed it, in that case, to the gun being finicky about ammo. Won't feed Federal but will feed Remington......

But .22s are like that and .45s usually aren't as picky. However, have you just tried a different brand of ammo?

 

[Tamara]

1911Tuner,

It's not likely your grip. I don't give much credence to the "Limp Grip Induced Malfunction Theory" anyway. I think that's a cop-out for a manufacturer/ builder who either can't set the pistol up right, or just doesn't want to be bothered with it. I've proven it too many times.

All it means is "This gun has too much spring for the load you're using."

 

[duckfoot]

All it means is "This gun has too much spring for the load you're using."

Tamara,

Not to high jack the thread, but a question?

Any experience with how heavy a spring and how light a load. I've shot 165gr SWC light target loads(I forget the charge but I remember it was light) through a Norinco M1911 with a Wilson 19 lb (or was it 18.5) recoil spring, with a 20% disabled left hand (I’m all better now, but a real noodle wrist back then) and never had too many problems that were not magazine related.


Duck

 

[1911Tuner]

What it all Means

Tamara said:

All it means is "This gun has too much spring for the load you're using."
_____________________

Most of the time...yep. Sometimes a limp-wrist induced failure to return to battery is caused by extractor tension and/or ramp and throat geometery.


Cheers!

Tuner

 

[anapex]

So what's a good way to tension the extractor?

 

[1911Tuner]

How?

Howdy anapex,

I've got my own way to do it, and if you're using a Series 80 Colt or Series 2
Kimber type extractor, you can mess it up if you're not careful.

You can use the Field Expedient method that's worked for years.

Remove the firing pin stop, firing pin and spring. Pull the extractor about halfway out, put your thumb against the left side with your index finger
hooked ovr the right side. Pull on the extractor with your finger, using your
thumb as a fulcrum to put just a little more bend in it. Easy. If you bend
it too far, you'll have failures to return to battery because of excessive
tension, and you'll bend it past its elastic limit...which will ruin it.
It's a trial and error thing until you develop a "feel" for just how much bend to apply. Best to do it with a quick tug and try it...repeat until the tension is
right.

To check it, chamber a round from the magazine at full speed. If you use
a live round, be extremely careful. Remove the magazine, and pull the slide back just far enough to extract the round from the chamber, but don't
let it touch the ejector. The round should droop as soon as it's unsupported, but it shouldn't fall down the magwell. Shake the pistol
up and down lightly a few times. If it stays put, the tension is pretty
close to right. If it falls through the magwell, it needs more tension. If
it doesn't droop, it needs a little less.

Luck!

Tuner

 

[anapex]

Great information as always Tuner!

 

[anapex]

Alright so I checked the extractor tension using the way you mentioned. The round barely dipped and never fell until hitting the ejector. The more I think about it now after checking the extractor it was probably the ammo I was using. I usually use winchester whitebox but this time I had some Remington UMC ammo I had bought in PA. It could have just been the brass expanding too much I guess.