1911 debate

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I strongly believe that he should buy an "expensive" used gun.

And it will serve him better in the long run than a new "cheap" gun.

There are lot's of reasons that I do not buy Para and Taurus.

Most have been named above - dependability / customer service / etc.

I just bought a used Kimber and took it to my 1911armourer for inspection.

He made the comment today - "if I'd know you were in the market for another 1911 I'd suggested you look at the new Ruger".

He's shot them and thinks Ruger has hit a home run.

And he works on all kinds of 1911 all day.

:cool:
 
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I've handled a few Taurii (?) and I'm NOT impressed.

With this "Judge" craze, I checked 'em out & the one I handled,
the cylinder would over-travel when you tried to close it.

I, personally, would buy one, but that's just me.
I know a Judge is not a 1911, but I just don't feel comfortable with Taurus quality.

I'm surprised no one mentioned a Metro Arms American Classic II.
I looked for about 6 months at the $400-$650 1911s.
And found that the ACII had excellent reviews.
Here's one review.
http://www.gunblast.com/Firestorm-1911Deluxe.htm
 
In fairness, I haven't had the opportunity to get the inside story on a Taurus 1911 clone, and based my comment on what I've seen in their revolvers. If anyone here has one and is within driving distance of Lexington-Southmont, NC...I extend an invitation to come partake of my infamous turbocoffee and play with the dogs while I have a look-see.
 
Ruger pioneered investment casting for firearms.
Click to expand...

No that’s not true thou often credited as true. Remington used the investment casting process on small parts. Ruger could not afford the economic expenditures for required production machinery but realized the economics of the investment casting process and became technical experts in the process.
 
I don't think you are being snobbish.
Consider the amount of MIM in the pistol and whether it is used for just a minimum of small parts, or is it the thumb safety, grip saftey (large parts).
If there is a problem with the pistol, what is the brands' repair / return time typically.
I wouldn't buy a 1911 (or any other gun) with an IL (internal lock) like Springfield, Taurus, but that's not everyones peeve.
Do a serach with "broke" or "broken" as the subject on different forums and that may help you (him) narrow your (his) choices.
 
Yup, the Walthers PPK is now all American made too and also all American recalled as well like the Ruger LCP. I do carry a post recall LCP though. It just takes Ruger a couple of times to get it right after Bill Ruger passed away and they started ripping off other makers gun designs to stay in business. cough!......mmmKelTec!
 
I recently bought the RIA .45 tactical and the 38 Super, I have had to polish all the rough areas and I changed sights, triggers, grips and they have been great guns.

The nice thing about a gun like this is that as he upgrades parts he will learn more about the gun and build it to his wants/needs without spending much.

Granted they are not anywhere close to the Kimber, Gold Cup, Les Baer but they are not bad for the price.
 
RIA 1911 clones seem to be the closest to the original Colt specs that I have ever seen. I often wondered if some Colt Military tool and dies made their way into the Philippines during WWII and ended up in the Armscor factories.
 
Buy yourself a new Colt with the 100 Years rollmark and give him your Les Baer. He'll have an appreciation for the 1911 and you'll have a nice bit of history to pass on years from now. I invite you to test that credit limit for his sake;-)

(Or you could just buy him a new Colt.)
 
Reliability as well as being able to endure many thousands of rounds are the heart and soul of the guns used by competition shooters. There is a reason they don't use the cheap guns to build on. You get what you pay for in this life...buy a cheap gun and that is just what you will own. Cheap in price and cheap in quality. I am not saying you need to buy a "boutique" gun like a Baer either...you are paying way too much for the name. However the Colt, Ruger, S&W, Springfield, SIG....the mid range price guns in other words will be shooting when your great grandkids are ready for them.

Personally I build my 1911's using high quality components and would happily put them up against the big names...I just know what I want in a 1911 and building is the easiest way toi get there for me. If I were to buy tho it would be one of the above that I mentioned or a STI if I wanted a hi-cap.
 
Even though the Ruger SR1911 is really hot right now, I am being told by a few dealers that the only reason they are hot is because they are cheap. All cast frame..and not of the best quality.
Click to expand...


Would I be wrong in guessing that these dealers don't inventory Ruger products? Or, if they do, is it their honorable intention to sell the "really hot right now" new SR1911 pistols with full disclosure of their misgivings?
 
loadedround said:
Shrt396: Before you knock Ruger casting, ask around and see how many Ruger competitors are buying their frames from Pine Tree Casting. This company is a wholly owed subsidiary of Strum Ruger and manufactures many of the custom big name makers of 1911 pistols. Do you think they are using poorly made frames...I think not! Ruger's SR1911 is a quality piece will eventually out shoot the so called custom pistols. JMHO.
Click to expand...
Not knocking Ruger. I own a SR556, Mk. 1 and a 10/22 tactical. I like the 1911 that they have come out with. It's a beautiful piece ESPECIALLY for the money. It's that I heard the casting was not the best way to go on a 1911. It did not make sense. That is why I posted this thread!
 
SwampWolf said:
Would I be wrong in guessing that these dealers don't inventory Ruger products? Or, if they do, is it their honorable intention to sell the "really hot right now" new SR1911 pistols with full disclosure of their misgivings?
Click to expand...
I think that when they don't have them is when they criticize them. Just a thought though. I love Springfields..but the only models that are out there are the base ones. Pretty much..everyone is out of them. I did however run into a Trophy Match that JUST came in a couple weeks ago and I snagged that one. I do the rounds to the local gun stores at least once a week! I should be satisfied for at least a few more weeks.
 
Taurus 1911s had an issue with the ambi-safety separating after a while and falling off the pistol, that has been the biggest issue really from my research regarding the PT1911. I don't know if it has been fixed or not but the PT1911 is probably the "safest" bet when purchasing a Taurus.

If it were me and my budget at the moment, I'd be looking at RIA, Springfield, Ruger, no particular order. For me though one of the requirements would be checkered front strap/grip. The smooth feel just don't work for me.
 
I would say a RIA match it's handfitted, the front/back strap is checkered, and a FO front site I think it would make a high quality pistol for a starter and it's about 600 bucks. Also the STI looks to be a good deal for the price.
 
Just a bump for Tuner's offer to have him look over your Taurus if you are an owner.

I've spent two separate, great days over at the Tuner house; you won't regret it. He's a class act, and just damn good people.
 
I've the Taurus PT1911 in .38 Super and 9mm. Haven't got a lot of rounds through the .38 Super, but about 2000 though the 9mm, no issues. Triggers on both are surprisingly good.

I agree the RIA "Tactial" is the best bang/buck available in a 1911 and perhaps in any pistol, with the only competition perhaps being the EAA Witness Elite Match series -- although RIA customer service blows away EAA. I've used both, RIA is good but can't match S&W which IMHO sets the standard.

The RIA Match is an awesome pistol for the price, the Match long slide is even better if you can find one!
 
Tuner, I'm spending the summer/fall with my Uncle Sam in far off sandy lands, but I absolutely plan to come back and visit you and go shooting again!
 
I have never owned a Taurus Anything but I would rather have a rusty taurus than utter the words," Here, take what I have and please don't shoot me !" My advice is do your research and buy the best that you can afford, and if you can afford any Ruger, you will be well served.
 
My Para GI Expert was a poor working out of the box, new magazines and a lot of polishing and it is starting to work OK. Taurus like Ruger makes good revolvers but their pistols are entry level at best. STI makes the best 1911 for the money, they shoot good and work right out of the box. STI Spartan at $628 and the STI Trojan for $999 are not going to dissapoint anyone for the money. I have a Trojan 9mm, it has run flawlessly, and can shoot as well as pistols twice it's price, like the S&W 952 and SIG P210, (they are safe queens now). STI, worth more than a look...
 
I just received this email invite to a local gun show from a friend of mine

"I'm going to XXX gun show today to see if I can trade or sell this new Para Hawg 9mm I bought."

He's only had the gun a month.

:cool:
 
My 1911 debate.

The only debate I have is can a modern CNC spit out a pile of 1911 parts that work well in a design meant to be custom fitted? Well enough to compare to a modern pistol like a Glock?

The more fitting your 1911's need, the more expensive they'll be. Obviously companies are trying to cut down on this with modern machineing technology. Dan Wesson deos less fitting than Ed Brown, Kimber deos less than both. (One of the cool things about MIM.....close tolerances)

What I mean, is we know that a really good modern 1911 requires alot of custom fitting. Kimber is the cheapest brand I recommend, they seem to have the most consistant machined parts in a 1911 that's spit out of a machine with little or no fitting. At least the big parts anyways, sometimes the small parts need some help.

My point of view is that if you can't afford a defensive pistol built and fitted by a skilled craftsman, then don't get a 1911. Get a Glock instead.

I'd rather not have another 1911 machined to require no fitting, and assembled by unskilled labor. In lesser 1911's I've seen too many:
-extractors that clock (SA)
-crooked bushings (SA)
-magazines that eat frame ramps (K)
-crooked chambers (K, SA, R)
-poorly fitted barrels (K, SA, T)
-even a FP safety fail! (K)



........on the other hand, the old original GI 1911's used in WW1 & WWII seem like they're built poorly compared to most any decent 1911 out there right now. Allthough reliability wasn't analyzed back then the way it is now. I'm pretty sure my Grandfather didn't expect his 1911 to function 100% of the time, or even 98%.

So maybe none of this really matters aside from some of the cheap 1911 companies needing to improve their QC checks before pistols leave the factory.
 
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