1911 for the experienced?

[Mad Magyar]

The 1911 was made as a mass-produced item for soldiers who wouldn't be given too much training in its use, not as a weapon for some special forces group that expend hundreds if not thousands of rounds out of them. You could say, in fact, that the 1911 was expressly built for the most ignorant of gun owners with a higher degree of truth.

Military research on ND's bears this out....Enough of them to make your hair stand on end....M. Ayoob has written on this subject as well...Just to be clear, this was not the reason for the switch to the 9mm back in the 80's, but just one variable....

 

[harrygunner]

There are problems with Internet "information".

Over a decade ago, I put off buying a 1911 based on Internet dogma since I was a novice. I bought a Sig 229 instead. Great gun, no problems with it.

Then, two years later, I rented a 1911. I immediately bought one. Best thing ever. I have another one being built as I write this. Taught me a lesson about converting Internet information into intelligence.

The 1911 is the safest gun out there. In fact, if there was a shroud over the hammer, people would be complaining about the "belt and suspenders", over done safeties.

For every gun, keep your finger off the trigger until you are ready to shoot. Compare safety with the Sig and Glock I own: If I don't decock the hammer after firing the Sig, it has a 4# trigger ready to go. The Glock ALWAYS goes bang when I pull the 5# trigger.

I remember when I read of a tragic occurrence when a LEO in central California fumbled his gun and reached out to catch it. He accidentally pressed the trigger and was killed. I thought of how nearly impossible it would be for that to happen with a cocked and cocked 1911.

In addition, the trigger is the best I've felt, the thin profile is easy to carry and conceal. Very accurate gun and a potent handgun caliber.

Rent one or shoot a friend's. Decide for yourself.

 

[tbtrout]

If you want one buy it and practice with it. Take a training class if need be. I can find an excuse not to buy any handgun if you want to get technical. Practice practice practice, makes perfect

 

[Walter]

1) It is a much harder pistol to field strip and assemble than the modern designs, especially for novices. There are more parts to clean and maintain. No one needs a bushing wrench or an allen wrench for a Glock.

I call "B.S."! I have 3 1911-type pistols, a Colt, a Springfield,
and an Au#*-Or*#%@*e (I have a hard time admitting it) but NONE
of them require an allen wrench, a bushing wrench, or any other tool
to field-strip.

Walter

 

[kamagong]

I already have one 1911, and have a couple more on the way. As you can tell, I'm quite fond of the design. It's a great platform, and even though I'm a newbie, I've taken quickly to it. That's what I'm confused about. If a person like me with very little firearm experience can pick it up, I think anyone should be able to. Then again, I do try and dry fire everyday and go to the range on a regular basis, where I've met a couple of good people who have helped me a lot. Maybe that's the difference?

Thanks for the input all.

 

[2RCO]

Although I may be a bit biased as one of the 1911's biggest fans. I could say that a smaller caliber handgun like a .22 is a good beginner pistol. That being said the 1911 is pretty intuitive to most shooters. Ah now a 1911 with a .22 conversion perfect for a first time shooter.

 

[2RCO]

[The 1911 was made as a mass-produced item for soldiers who wouldn't be given too much training in its use, not as a weapon for some special forces group that expend hundreds if not thousands of rounds out of them. You could say, in fact, that the 1911 was expressly built for the most ignorant of gun owners with a higher degree of truth.

Note that they will stand up to several thousand rounds and alot of Spec Ops gents use them now.

 

[crazed_ss]

I call "B.S."! I have 3 1911-type pistols, a Colt, a Springfield,
and an Au#*-Or*#%@*e (I have a hard time admitting it) but NONE
of them require an allen wrench, a bushing wrench, or any other tool
to field-strip.

1911's do take a little more effort to strip than Sigs and Glocks and such. It took me like 30 minutes when I first tried to strip and re-assemble my 1911. I can field strip it pretty quick now, but I cant put it back together if I dont have my pocket knife on me.

I need something to press the plunger down so I can get the slide stop back in. Is there a way to do this without using a tool?

 

[Geronimo45]

Note that they will stand up to several thousand rounds and alot of Spec Ops gents use them now.

Absolutely. My point was that it was made for the masses, not for the elite. Just a statement on layout and controls, not durability. Today, only the more 'elite' parts of the military have them: because they are allowed more choices than the others, not because it takes an expert to run the guns.

I need something to press the plunger down so I can get the slide stop back in. Is there a way to do this without using a tool?

Yes. I insert the pin-end first, then pull it out a tad so you can move the 'flag' without scraping the metal. Position the tooth-end of that 'flag' just below (below=towards mag release) the projecting... thingamajig from the plunger. Let the 'flag' lay down on the frame in this position, and push up (towards slide) on it. It will snap into place.

 

[Jim Watson]

Caution: Not every 1911 slide stop can be put in like Geronimo describes. They are SUPPOSED to work that way, but many of the clones, copies, knockoffs, and mutants do not adhere to specs and will require an implement. The plunger may be too long or too blunt or the shoulder in the tube may be too far in. Or the slide stop itself may not be beveled right.
Be careful and don't apply an idiot mark trying to force it. That will make you a figure of fun and reduce the resale value of the gun.

 

[1911 guy]

Any formboy can use one.

The 1911 was and is meant for the general masses. We've managed to dumb ourselves down with point and click shooting, though. Forget to take a safety off? So absurd I can't properly comment. But it's believed by so many on this board alone that it proves my point. It's made for the average user, but we've allowed ourselves to become lazier than the average user in out training and thinking.

 

[10X]

1911s are usable by anyone that wants to take a brief amount of time to learn about the gun. If one is going to modify the gun or deal with an improperly working gun, then expertise is needed because so many parts have to be hand fitted to work properly.

 

[Geno]

I think that the first two handguns I ever fired (same day) were a Colt 1911 and a S&W model 19. They belonged to my LEO, BIL. I never had difficulties, but then he showed me how to handle and operate each safely.

At present I own Glocks, 1911s, BHP, XDs, and many others. I have never had difficulty switching between them. We were taught in our Tactical and Advanced Tactical classes to disengage the manual safety as we drew the 1911, BHP.

Practice, practice.

Doc2005

 

[farscott]

... but NONE of them require an allen wrench, a bushing wrench, or any other tool to field-strip.

Try to disassemble a new Baer pistol without a bushing wrench. Better yet, put it back together without a bushing wrench. Or to disassemble a STI TargetMaster without an Allen wrench. There are a lot of 1911s and some of them require tools to take down.

 

[Geno]

My Kimber Warrior is still so tight that I have to use tools. This 1911 is almost 3 years old and has about 1,000 rounds through it. It remains my tightest 1911 in terms of receiver & slide rails, and bushing to slide fit.

Doc2005

 

[jabotinsky]

Since most of the semiautos I see are derived from the 1911 design, I don't think it's for experienced shooters only. It's easier to control than my .40, and about average on cleaning complexity. Maybe some folks think they're for more experienced shooters because they're usually .45 and loud for a first-timer.

 

[Walkalong]

Folks who think 1911's are only for top tier, trained more than anybody else, etc, personel are full of it. I mastered it on my own at 17 and did so very quickly.

Most folks who say that are really just trying to push something else.

 

[rcmodel]

Military research on ND's bears this out....Enough of them to make your hair stand on end....

There are always a few GI's in every group that are too stupid to operate a Zippo Lighter correctly.

But imagine the mass ND casualties had we issued Glocks instead of 1911's all those years!

We would be lucky to have had enough troops left to win two world wars and several police actions!


rcmodel

 

[Blackfork]

1911 as entry-level?

The military use of the 1911 is hardly the measuring stick. Most military folks can't shoot the 1911...or the M9. They hardly teach soldiers a thing or let them shoot.

I've taught Preliminary Marksmanship Instruction to Army folks in pistol, M16/variants, 249, 240B, Mk19, 50 cal rifle and M2 and a lot of Squad Designated Marksmanship classes in the classroom and on the range.

I don't think of the 1911 as anyones "first" pistol. Seems to me most folks would be better off with a revolver as a first gun, or a Ruger .22 autoloader, or a Glock 19. Even other 45acps- like a Sig 220 or the Glock 30, 21, et are more user-friendly than a 1911.

I wouldn't recommend a 1911 as anyones first handgun. It's not a beginners gun or a junior pistol. I would never start a first time shooter on 45acp, especially the 1911. They will develop a flinch that will take longer to untangle than it is worth. (The juniors at the National Matches and CMP/NRA matches are allowed to shoot .22 while everyone else shoots .45 n the 45 and centerfire matches.)