1911 from the ground up

[WhoKnowsWho]

Now supposing I take a couple years to gather every single part I want for a 1911 (mainly, I want that damascus slide) and then asked a Gunsmith to put it all together, how much would I expect to pay for all the fitting and assembly? Not including any other special touches like checkering or finishing.

I saw a website all about fitting the barrel, etc, and I don't think I would ever have the courage to do all of it. Building an AR was easy (is easy) compared to a 1911 with fitting required.

 

[Art Eatman]

Aw, the main thing is just having patience. Get one of the books on the 1911; I use Hallock's, but there are several. Plenty of "how to".

Personally, I like to find old, rusty GI "clunkers" and do a cleanup and rebuild. Hand-held files and stones, and a Dremel for only the polishing. It's a good excuse to build up a set of gunsmith tools, buying them only as you need them.

, Art

 

[litman252]

On 1911forum I saw a figure of $1,000 I'd guess higher. I don't recomend giving the smith a pile of parts, let them decide on what parts to use w/ your input.

Tony

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

Art, so where do I find these rusty clunkers? I have looked locally and never seen one at the shows or the shops.

Well, I got the dremel tool already, where can I find that book too?

 

[Big Daddy]

I would say $1000-$1500 depending on the 'smith etc.

I build 1911s myself for fun. I built a 5" .45 trying to build it as cheaply as possible while still using only match grade, name brand parts. Caspian, Ed Brown, Kart, EGW, etc. I bought them as cheaply as I could and got some stuff from Ebay and other online forums. I still had $1000-$1100 in parts. Add a finish for about $100. So you figure $1200 parts and finish and a typical full house custom is usually $2,000-$3500. So using math here I would deduce that you could spend as little as $800-$1000 for basic fitting and assembly, up to $2000 if you add a bunch of custom machining, hi-tech finish, etc.

Good luck.

 

[bountyhunter]

I agree with your opinion that fitting a 1911 from parts is not for the novice. In fact, the parts for a target grade 1911 (frame, slide, and barrel) start out oversized and are cut down to achieve perfect fit.

As to labor cost: I can shed this much light. I had a gunsmith (Bob Hunter) buy the parts for a 6" STI Trojan top end in .40SW to fit onto the receiver I already had which was my 9mm Trojan. In the course of it, he had to "square" the frame rails. I also asked him to do a trigger job in addition to fitting the new slide and barrel, so basically all the fitting for a 1911 was priced into my job. If I recall correctly, the total labor was somewhere around $500 - $600? If you want him to price a job, he is over on the 1911 Forums or you can get him at Huntercustoms.com I believe. FWIW, he got the parts from STI a lot cheaper than they quoted me so getting him to buy the parts will save you money.

 

[bountyhunter]

The gunsmith who built mine told me he would charge about $900 labor complete to put together a 1911 from a bare frame supplied to him. he also said that it would run about $1000 for the parts complete to complete the entire gun to go with the frame if you bought them through him (he says he sells the parts to you at his cost on a gun build that he is doing). That would be a complete hand made gun with hard chrome or blue finish for about $1900 built onto your frame where he supplies every other part but the frame.

 

[saands]

One good book is Kuhnhausen's 1911 Shop Guide ... Volume I deals with the stuff you are interested in. As I understand it, Volume II is more for people wanting to make 1911 parts from scratch. It is available through Brownells.com

Saands

 

[WhoKnowsWho]

What about the price for just some fitting? Slide to barrel to frame?

saands: Thanks, if I get around to it, I will check out that book.

 

[Art Eatman]

I've found a good bit of stuff at gunshows, from beatup 1911s to parts to tools and books. Tucson and Phoenix both have sizable gunshows. The little show up at Kingman in February (dunno if there are other dates) often has lots of parts and pieces; more hunting guns and less para-military.

The two main aspects of "fit" are the barrel-link and the bushing. The longer the link, the tighter the lockup of the barrel to the slide. Of course, you can go too far with this, and it is indeed a fit-and-try deal. Getting the bushing right is easy although somewhat time consuming.

As for the fit of the slide to the frame, that's a mix of careful hammer-tapping and then clearancing with valve-grinding compound. Again, caution; it's a bit time-consuming but no big deal.

I polish the surface of the feed ramp and the throat of the chamber, and the top of the hood and chamber. This is jeweler's-rouge polishing of the surface, not removal of metal. It reduces friction for the entry of a cartridge.

Hallock's book shows the angles and depth for stoning the hammer and sear. Lotsa caution, plus a feeler gauge and a 16X lens makes this part of the trigger job work...

Another deal to take the "foreplay" out of a trigger is to lay brazing material across the back flat of the trigger. (I made a "heat sink" by grinding the head of a large bolt, to fit snugly inside the trigger; then mount it in a vise.) There is then the tedium of filing it down to where it looks like it might fit, and then assembling and testing. Eventually, you can get it to where there might be some 10 or fifteen thousandths of an inch of takeup before the trigger pushes the sear.

And now you know as much as I do.

, Art

 

[Jim K]

Hi, Art,

"The longer the link, the tighter the lockup of the barrel to the slide."

Ideally, the barrel should not be propped up on the link. It should be forced up into engagement by the cam surface on the lower lug riding on the slide stop pin and be held there by the flat on that lug sitting on the pin. This is a much more stable arrangement and less likely to "wobble" than using the link for engagement.

In fact, if everything is right, the link is not involved when the gun goes into battery, and the gun should lock up without the link at all. It is when the gun fires and the barrel needs to be unlocked from the slide that the link comes into play. If in doubt, it is easy enough to remove the link and try it (not firing, of course). You can disengage the locking by pushing down on the barrel as you move the slide back, but the gun should lock without the link.

Jim

 

[Art Eatman]

Thanks, Jim. Guess I was repeating what somebody told me, or I misinterpreted what I'd read. I've never changed out links, not having worried about target accuracy beyond IPSC needs.

Question: Do custom barrels for accuracy come with a "fat lug" that you work down for proper fit?

Art

 

[Chad]

Hi Jim

"You can disengage the locking by pushing down on the barrel as you move the slide back,"

I'm not sure if it is what you meant, but the slide stop on my Colt 10 was jammed...wouldn't budge...until I tried what you said, and it slid right out.
Now I'm a happy camper!! <G>

 

[Big Daddy]

Art Eatman

Yes, gunsmith fit, "Match", or whatever name the manufacturer decides to use, barrels come with an oversized lower lug for tight fitting. The barrel hood width, barrel hood length, upper lug depth, lower lug height, and sometimes outside chamber diameter all need to be fit on a "gunsmith fit" barrel. In addition, the chamber often needs to be cut with a reamer for proper headspace after the hood length is fit.

 

[Art Eatman]

Thanx...

Art