1911 Guide Rod Replacement Questions

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Sean,

But wait! A FLGR isn't tactical because... uh... somebody said so, and Novaks are tactical because... uh... somebody said so...

Did you know that you're the only person to use the word "tactical" in this thread? :p

Okay, Sean, here's your chance to be the first person to adequately explain to me what benefit a full-length guide rod confers on a 1911. (...and please don't tell me it "keeps the spring from kinking" or it "adds a whole extra ounce out by the muzzle for faster splits.")

Any honest 1911 smith will tell you that they put in a FLGR because customers expect to see one on a gun; it's no more functional than the hood ornament on a Studebaker. It reduces functionality, complicates takedown and reassembly, and gives nothing back for all that. Why have one?

:confused:
 
Did you know that you're the only person to use the word "tactical" in this thread?

And did you know that you are making the mistake of taking my smart-assed remarks even pseudo-seriously? :D

OK, here is my sorta-serious take on it, for what it's worth...

The practical benefits of a FLGR are, at best, iffy. Their main benefits are subjective, by making a gun "feel" tighter and smoother when you cycle the gun by hand. They also do put more weight in a useful place (under the muzzle), and do offer the slight theoretical advantage of making the spring compress and expand in a more uniform manner. Just waving your hands and saying "don't use argument X" is no way to argue anything. :p

The practical disadvantages of a FLGR tend to be overstated too. You don't NEED a tool to disassemble a 1911 with a one-piece FLGR at all, unless the bushing is fitted so tightly that you need a wrench to turn the sucker. Of course, if the bushing is too tight to turn without a tool, that really isn't the fault of the FLGR, now is it?

You can just use your thumb, or the magazine to depress the plug and then turn the bushing.

I'll be the first to agree that two-piece guide rods just plain suck; they shoot themselves un-screwed, for instance, which is a pretty big disadvantage. And if you glue them together like some people do, why use a two-piece setup in the first place.

:confused:

And they don't prevent you from racking the gun on a convenient edge or corner, either. They may negate one way of doing it. But so what? So do most sights that people use on their guns... yet you don't hear anybody complaining about that... probably because it is, at best, a peripheral issue on any gun for any use. Very few guns other than the 1911 use stubby guide rods, so by your reasoning all those Glocks, SigSauers, and so forth should be strictly for range use too...? ;)

Are you a flighty, impractical shooter because you have guns with Novaks, when other sight designs would have a practical benefit and still give you a good sight picture? After all, it " reduces functionality" by your own definition, and sights that don't provide a fine sight picture. By your own reasoning, they are just as much of an impractical ripoff as a full length guide rod... :eek:

On the flipside, the practical benefit of the stubby 1911-style plug is pretty negligible. They make taking down the gun marginally quicker. And, that's about it. There are other tricks you can do with them, like sticking your finger near the muzzle of a loaded weapon to find out if it is loaded. If you plan on taking apart your gun in the middle of a gunfight, you need a better plan, not a different kind of guide rod thingy.

I use FLGRs sometimes, but that's because my 1911s are often 10mm guns, and in that particular circumstance I'm willing to do anything to get any theoretical advantage in function, no matter how itty bitty. But I do lots of stuff in 10mm guns I wouldn't do in a .45 gun... AFTEC extractors and EGW firing pin stops, for instance. My current .45 1911 I'm shooting has a short plug, and I've felt no urge to use anything else. But in my mind it has neither great benefits nor crushing disadvantages compared to most other options.
 
I personally have no need or use for FLGRs, in fact I hate them. But I have heard the joke, and kind of agree with it, that it keeps novices from attempting an improperly-done pinch-check and blowing their fingers off!
 
Ok...I got a question. I like FLGR's (shoot me :neener: )

Tamara states that it keeps you from doing one handed slide cycling.....
The barrel interferes with this as much as the guide rod does...well, pretty close anyway.

IMO..if its done correctly and doesnt bind and cause drag, whats the harm in a FLGR.....it just isnt like JMB designed it? If thats the reason.....MIL SPEC guns ONLY for all of you 1911 die hards.......

Ill post my address and you can send me all of your Kimbers, Bears and Wilsons...Ill save you from those "other improvements" that arent MIL SPEC on your 1911's.......:what: :D

Shoot well
 
It is written if you use Skateboard Tape you must remove FLGR and go to a stubby GI style. Its in the TFL archives...somewhere...;)

"But you can't use a paperclip to field strip your gun" I never seem to have a darn paperclip around.

I do know its easier to get mud out the recoil spring swishing around in a bucket w/o a FLGR. You had to be there I guess.
 
2 weeks + later, and the best y'all can come up with is some pedantic semantic nonsense about short plugs vs short rods?

:neener:
 
sadness.gif
 
Well, so far, I've been convinced that they offer one ounce out towards the muzzle (I suppose I could also use a "monolith frame" or just a piece of lead screwed under the dust cover for the the same benefit) as well as two other advantages that were self-described as:
subjective ... "feel" ... theoretical advantage

Heck, I'm sold. ;)
 
Heck, I'm sold. ;)

Tamara: who was trying to make a sale? I may not be a master debater, but jeez, I started my post with:

The practical benefits of a FLGR are, at best, iffy.

...which for most people would be a most excellent hint that I'm not trying to convert the short recoil rod heathens to the shining truth of the long rod. ;)

Guess thats why I don't work in marketing. :neener:

If I was suggesting anything, it was the extravagant bashing of long guide rods is just about as silly as the extravagant magical claims that the makers of the part advertise.
 
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Although I'm still debating whether to use one or not, it did seem to make one of my loose Colt's rattle less and it did change the ejection pattern a bit.
At least that's my impression. I don't get the occasional overhead ejections and all the brass ejects in a more similiar pattern.

If this is true:D , then it may provide for a more consistent slide/frame relationship and consequently, more consistent ejection.

Probably has no effect on a 1911 with a tight slide/frame fit.
 
Chicks dig the long rod. Also, when you have a long rod, you do not have to be a master debater.

Sorry, I could not resist.

WJR
 
Tamara,

If you can't figure out that my goofy response to your goofy response was goofy...

Master debater... shining truth about the long rod... man, tough crowd!

:evil:
 
Tamara, gunfyter said:

"Ok, I too have a Kimber 5". Just for the sake of argument, why do away with the rod? What does a short rod do that the long one won't?"

So, the ADVANTAGES to you of switching from the long to the short are: Hmmmm (scratching head). C'mon, now, you don't REALLY think it's difficult to take down a FLGR gun? And do you REALLY engage in one-handed cycling? (if so, then maybe this is a reason)

The DISADVANTAGES are: 1. It cost you MONEY to buy the short one. 2. You potentially compromise that weight which you seem to agree might be an advantage, and is a far simpler method than attaching the piece of lead you mentioned. 3. It IS in fact more difficult to put the damn thing back together with a stubbie - the FLGR makes it easier.

So, on balance, it seems you should stick with "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". You are incorrect that the proper question is "What advantages do the FLGR have", since the status quo for you is FLGR, and you are justifying making a change. That would indeed be the proper question if the gun came with a stubbie.
 
1400 rounds is enough to wear out any recoil spring on a 1911.

It will still function with a wore out spring but if you put a new spring on it you will notice the difference as the rate of "slam" of the slide will be reduced slightly with a new spring vs a wore out one.

On my first 1911 I shot so many rounds though it that it would cycle bird shot from CCI:D It was a great snake dispatcher.

I admit having installed a full lenght guide rod on my Colt Govt Enhanced but I do wonder about the validity of it. I don't think that the guide rod has any real effect on the accuracy. The added weight up front may reduce the muzzle flip a wee bit but I honestly can not tell.

You can probably pick up the original USGI issue spring and guide stub at a gun show for a few bucks.
 
I asked about FLGR's on another forum (I was thinking about picking up an XSE) and the general response I got was fugetaboutit. If there is one in the weapon, fine. If not, fine. As long as the gun runs, what difference does it make?

As for sights, all of mine are those impractical non-tactical rabbit ear types. Heck, some of them don't even have white dots!

Regards,
Happyguy:D
 
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