Question on 1911 recoil springs and guide rods

[Bullseye]

I have broken down my two stainless 1911 for cleaning etc. I believe they have full length guide rods.
I recently got a Rock Island Armory basic parkerized full size 1911 and it has a lot of spring in there and space where there is no guide rod between the plug and the short guide rod.

I have two questions really ...
1. Is it better to have a full length rod?
2. Would it fit if I replaced the short one with a full length with something from say ... Wilson Combat?

Take down of the RIA was rather sloppy and I am afraid the spring will easily bend out of shape without a Full length guide rod.
Thank you.

 

[rcmodel]

If I had a 1911 with a full-length guide rod?

I would take it out and throw it away.

The 1911 has worked perfectly for over 100 years without them.

Just another dodad that makes take-down & cleaning more difficult.

rc

 

[JTQ]

I have two questions really ...
1. Is it better to have a full length rod?

Only if that's what you like. The vast majority of 1911 ever built had short GI guide rods and they have not been a problem.

2. Would it fit if I replaced the short one with a full length with something from say ... Wilson Combat?

You'd need to replace the spring plug with one for a full length guide rod, but if that's what you want, it would work.

Take down of the RIA was rather sloppy and I am afraid the spring will easily bend out of shape without a Full length guide rod.

Most 1911 users prefer the take down with a GI guide rod. Finding it easier to do. If you are looking up "1911 field strip" on the "net", chances are good you're going to find the "how to" with a GI rod. The springs don't typically get bent.

 

[Bullseye]

Maybe it's just the RIA spring that seemed flimsy. I got it back together and it racks properly, feels right but I just thought there was something funny. Maybe it is lacking in quality some. I shot it and it shoots awesome with my handloads.
I don't have X-ray vision but I am imagining the spring rubbing the inside of the slide or barrel there the way I put it back together. Feels right? I dunno.

 

[rcmodel]

Don't worry about it.

That's the way 1911's are designed to work.

The FL guide rod is an unnecessary after-thought.

rc

 

[Bullseye]

Good dis-assembly link
(Second one down about a RIA)

Thanks RC! I will not worry. If it ain't broke don't fix it, I guess.

 

[JTQ]

I'm glad you found that. I was wondering if you've only seen/done a 1911 disassembly with a full length guide rod, and didn't know how to field strip a 1911 with a GI guide rod. I was thinking about finding a video for you to make sure you knew how to field strip a 1911 with a GI rod. Unless you were doing something different than the video, I don't know how the recoil spring could get bent.

 

[JTQ]

Just for the heck of it, here's Hickok45 with a Series 80 Colt. I field strip my 1911's pretty much like he does. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wPPUXU3Lhc

 

[imashooter]

Pretty much just personal preference. I prefer the G.I. setup.

 

[Walt Sherrill]

Maybe it's just the RIA spring that seemed flimsy. I got it back together and it racks properly, feels right but I just thought there was something funny. Maybe it is lacking in quality some. I shot it and it shoots awesome with my handloads.

I don't have X-ray vision but I am imagining the spring rubbing the inside of the slide or barrel there the way I put it back together. Feels right? I dunno.

There's may be some rubbing somewhere on the inside of the slide or against with the standard GI assembly, but SO WHAT if it does? If things work as they should, the bullet has left the gun before the recoil spring has compressed much more than a fraction of an inch, and if the gun is properly fit, it's going to lock up consistently on the slide's return trip as long an the spring has enough stored force to close the breech properly.

I've seen results of tests done using Ransom Rests (I may have read about it here on THR) using both GI and Full-length guide rods with a number of different guns... and there was no measurable difference in performance (i.e., reliability or accuracy/precision) in any of them.

(I have read that some specialized full-length guide rods, like one of the versions that Wilson Combat offers seems to improve things a bit, but that's all based on comments read on forums like this; I've not seen actual test results or more rigorous comparisons that could be measured to support those claims.)

 

[stu1ritter]

The only advantage I can see to a full length guide rod would be one that is drilled half way down to aid disassembly. With the drilled full length, when you take the slide off you use your thumb to push the guide rod and compress the spring until the hole shows up Through the hollow plug. When the hole shows up you drop in a little home made pin that holds the spring compressed against the plug and you just remove the guide rod complete with the compressed spring and plug which means you don't have to turn the barrel bushing to remove and replace the spring/guide rod assy. Going together you just scoot the assembly back through, push on the guide rod to take the tension off the pin and Bob's your uncle.
Stu

 

[Bullseye]

What springs will work in my full length 1911's and where should I get them?

When I broke down the Rock Island Armory pistol, I noticed that the spring has a bit of a bend to it when decompressed on the table by itself.

The only recoil springs I have bought so far and have set aside for replacement are for my Colt Defender. The Defender was easy enough to figure out what to get.
I suppose the RIA is a model M1911A1. Pretty sure.

So I could answer my own questions by taking down my R1S and exchanging the recoil springs to see if they are interchangeable or I could ask here and see if you guys can tell me.

What springs will work in my full length 1911's and where should I get them?
I have read 16 to 18 lb springs are correct for the RIA. Some preferred the 16 lb. Don't remember where I saw that and I could be wrong. My handloads work just fine in any of my 1911's.

My OCD tells me that this spring should be exactly straight and roll like a pencil on the table. I guess the couple few degrees bend bothers me.
Besides, I will eventually be replacing recoil springs and keeping a couple extras on hand. I will leave these guide rods and plugs as they are.

 

[JTQ]

16 lb is typically recommended as standard for a 5" 1911 shooting standard factory ammo.

Wilson has some recoil spring info in their FAQ section. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IuM8DPCN1_PHqfWZFNGxzNGl7LdKF_T4TNNtpl6OCZ8/edit?pli=1

Wolff Gun Springs is another source for information and springs. https://www.gunsprings.com/index.php?page=items&cID=1&mID=1&dID=1#3

Brownell's http://www.brownells.com/GunTech/1911-Auto-Recoil-Spring-Compression-Weights/detail.htm?lid=10262

 

[rcmodel]

Get spring's here.

Factory standard on the 1911 is 16 pound.

https://www.gunsprings.com/index.php?page=items&cID=1&mID=1&dID=1#3

rc

 

[Bullseye]

Thank you everyone. I think I got it now.
I did take down the pistol again a little while ago.
Looks like the spring has magically shaped itself back to normal.
I'll be getting some 16.5 lb springs from wolff at the link suggested.

 

[imashooter]

16 lb. Wolff springs should be fine. RIA previously shipped 5" .45s with 18.5 lb but I believe they now use 16 lb. and recommend changing them every 1.000 rounds.

 

[mrdemal]

I am the weird one I guess. I Put FLGR in all of my 1911's. One writer tested them and found out that his recoil springs lasted quite a longer with the FLGR. This is just my choice and I seem to be in the minority. Oh well

 

[tark]

For what it's worth, Les Baer has no use for guide rods and won't put one in a gun unless the customer asks for it. I know Les pretty well, I worked for him for 21 years, and I agree with him on this subject. So does Clint Smith, Charlie Petty and a number of others.

A guide rod on a 1911 is the solution to a non-existent problem. They work, sure, but no better than the original set-up. Why bother?

 

[bluzman]

Pretty much just personal preference. I prefer the G.I. setup.

I agree that it's a matter of personal preference. All of my 1991s (Springfield, Kimber, RIA) and my Sig P938 came with a FLGR. Among them, my Springfield Loaded had a two piece FLGR that required an Allen wrench for field stripping - what a bad idea from a good company. I replaced it with a one piece FLGR for Wilson Combat.

 

[JTQ]

For what it's worth, Les Baer has no use for guide rods and won't put one in a gun …

A guide rod on a 1911 is the solution to a non-existent problem. They work, sure, but no better than the original set-up. Why bother?

While I'm pretty sure I know what you mean, for clarity, you are referring to full length guide rods. I'm pretty sure all Les Baer 1911's and most likely all other 1911 have a guide rod of some sort, and most have a GI guide rod.

 

[Tallball]

I have a couple of Colts with the short guide rod, and also a RIA 1911 with one. When I first got them I was unfamiliar with the concept and found reassembly to be mildly aggravating - it kept feeling like I was going to ruin the spring. However, they have all functioned just fine, and now that I am used to it, reassembly is NBD. It just takes a bit of getting used to if you are not yet accustomed to that style of pistol.

 

[Walkalong]

I have a 1911 with a FL (One piece) guide rod, and a 1911 with the GI set up. Both work great. I have seen no need to change either one. I do not like the two piece full length guide rods, as they tend to loosen in the middle. One piece FL or the short GI one. The original GI set up is the easiest to field strip, although some FL ones are set up to be easier than others.

16 Lb is what you need.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/2381154776/ismi-recoil-spring-1911-government-chrome-silicon

 

[tark]

JTQ, quite right you are. All 1911s have a guide rod, it is the full length ones that Les dislikes. I would print a few of Clint Smith's colorful comments on their uselessness, but the Moderator would remove them and insert me on his manure manifest..... so enough said.