1911 guide rods

[sprice]

What is the difference between a standard gi length guide rod and a full length guide rod? Why would I not want the recoil spring to kink?

 

[Strahley]

Full length rods seem to be an answer looking for a problem. The original GI length is just fine

 

[gwnorth]

What makes you think the recoil spring kinks on a non-full length guide rod? If the barrel, slide and guide rod are aligned and fitted properly, it shouldn't.

 

[surfinUSA]

I've got a 25 year old Colt commander with a standard length guide rod (and thats young by Colt standards) and have never had a problem with this gun of any kind. I also have a Combat Elite with a full length guide rod and never had a problem with it.

I really think the full length guide rod is more hype than any true value. It doesn't hurt but I would't pay to put one in a gun that didn't have one and I wouldn't base the purchase of a 1911 on whether one had one or didn't.

 

[kmbrman]

Guide Rods

Some manufacturers make and catalogue guns with both. Kimber comes to mind . Some models are FLGR. others are GI. If there was a problem with the design of either set-up ,probably they would change their design. I think it's just more of a gun purist problem, as a lot of 1911 folks just like the GI short rod better since it is the original design.

 

[EddieNFL]

It doesn't hurt but I would't pay to put one in a gun that didn't have one and I wouldn't base the purchase of a 1911 on whether one had one or didn't.

My sentiments.

Some manufacturers make and catalogue guns with both. Kimber comes to mind .

Someone on the 1911 forum called Kimber and asked why they did not include a FLGR on a certain model. The response was, "If we thought it needed one, we would have added it." Hard to follow the logic.

 

[Frank Ettin]

Some folks perceive that the FLGR system cycles more smoothly, although that question can be debated forever. Some folks like the FLGR because they believe a little more weight out front reduces muzzle flip, but I, for one, can't really notice any difference.

The short GI set up is easier to field strip. Also, with the short rod and solid plug, it's possible to rack the slide with one hand by pressing the plug on a hard surface, like your shoe or a stiff belt. That's something one might need to do in a combat situation.

In any case, the "FLGR vs. GI" is one of the perennial never to be resolved debates in the gun world.

 

[Billy Shears]

I would stay away from two piece guide rods like the plague. I had one, once upon a time, and at the range, after a few magazines, the guide rod would start to unscrew, and once the threads, and the sharp shoulder of the rod where it was stepped down to the narrower, threaded portion, were exposed for the spring to drag on, jams resulted.

A one piece guide rod will never suffer from this difficulty, but it unnecessarily complicates field stripping the gun. If I had a gun that came with a one piece rod, I doubt I'd go to the trouble of replacing it, but if one came to me with another two piece rod, I'd change it out as fast as I could. And, of course, I'd never spend money to replace a standard length guide rod; the gun works perfectly well with the original length rod Browning put in it.

 

[9mmepiphany]

the FLGR makes the action feel smoother when you manually rack the slide...that's it

 

[Oro]

Some folks perceive that the FLGR system cycles more smoothly, although that question can be debated forever.

Or it can be proven by simply testing it. I have.

If a gun is a little loose in the ole' slide/frame fit department, a FLGR can indeed smooth things out on the cylcing aisle. If a gun is tightly fit in that regard, you won't notice a huge difference. If a gun is "combat fit" or old and well-used, the FLGR will make a noticeable improvement in the cycling. It WILL aid the spring in recoiling more linearly, but that's not going to make a difference in reliability or performance. It will potentially lengthen spring life, but that's a tiny consideration.

They do add about five or six seconds to take down and re-assembly, but work reliably and help some guns out.

Is it a panacea for all guns? Nope. Do some benefit from it? Yep.

So if someone tells you it has to be one way or the other, well, it just isn't so.

 

[Mad Magyar]

As Chas. Petty once noted in an article for a gun rag, " it's not going to kink because there is no place for it to go!"....

 

[Frank Ettin]

Or it can be proven by simply testing it. I have.

If a gun is a little loose in the ole' slide/frame fit department, a FLGR can indeed smooth things out on the cylcing aisle....

Of course, that's a subjective test based on feel, and not an objective test based on something objectively measurable. In any case, I said it's a subject that can be debated forever. And it may indeed smooth out a very loose gun.

 

[mljdeckard]

The only difference I can discern is the sound. You can hear the spring making more noise as it spools up in the plug. I can't tell any difference at all in how it actually shoots.

 

[Guy de Loimbard]

Unless you're doing something drastically wrong, your spring should not kink when using a GI guide rod setup. The FLGR adds a little bit of weight to the front, whether it is noticed is probably dependent on the person shooting more than anything. I've shot both and stick with the GI guide rod so I don't have to keep a wrench around to disassemble.

 

[Zerodefect]

I use FLGRs. But for added weight and it's all I know. My first 1911 had one, so I've used them ever since.

What keeps the spring from kinking in a GI 1911? Deos the spring just hit the frame or barrel and stay straight? I can't compress it when its loose with out it flopping about and bending and springing across the room.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

Why would I not want the recoil spring to kink?

You don't, but the spring doesn't kink. If you take the original design plug, spring and short guide rod and lay them end to end, it looks like a large gap, but when assembled in the gun, the actual gap is perhaps the width of two coils - insignificant. The one-piece rods complicate field stripping, usually requiring a bushing wrench, and prevent you from pushing the slide back by pressing it against an object. (Granted, this is less of a consideration for civilian CCW than a WWI trench.) The two-piece rods must necessarily screw together, which increases the chance that they will come apart. The FLGR simply isn't necessary on a fighting 1911.

 

[Slamfire]

Also, with the short rod and solid plug, it's possible to rack the slide with one hand by pressing the plug on a hard surface, like your shoe or a stiff belt. That's something one might need to do in a combat situation.

A guide rod is just another thing to go wrong.

My Clackamas Kimber came with a guide rod. I was shooting reloads which were fine in a Colt, but were too long in the Clackamas. So I got a jam with a lead bullet jammed in the throat. I could not shoot the thing out as the slide was just a tiny bit out of battery. I could not push the slide closed. And I could not put the muzzle on the edge of the bench and push right on the plug. Because that stupid guide rod was in the way.

I had to put the sights on the edge of the bench and push against them to get the cartridge out of the chamber.

I did not like that. So I dumped that stupid guide rod.

Yes, it was my crappy reloads, but since then, any crappy reload that is too long, all I have to do is rest that plug on the table and push.

I like my M1911 recoil system the way John Browning designed it.

 

[APIT50]

If you've ever of Les Baer, they are a pretty big name in the semi-custom 1911 market and they don't use full length guide rods in any of their pistols including competition ones. I think that says something about the arguments for full length guides.

 

[jfrey]

Les Baer (great pistols) doesn't use 'em. Briley Mfg. (great pistols by Claudio Salasa) does use 'em. Seems to be just personal preference as to who is putting them together.I've owned and shot 'em both ways and it didn't make a lot of difference from what I could tell. Kahr uses a FLGR in most of their larger pistols too.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Full length rods seem to be an answer looking for a problem

I was going to say a solution to a problem that never existed. FLGRs are a huge pet peeve of mine and I have been really disappointed to see their popularity grow so much. Of course there are a great deal of many 1911 mods that are not needed. Such as the atrociously large beavertail grip safeties. Just extend it a little and the same function is found. Front serrations, etc.

 

[kmbrman]

Guide Rods?

In LE circles the main complaint against FLGRs is that if your non- shooting hand goes down in a gunfight, you may need to jack the slide against anything solid by pushing the slide back to re-chamber another round or clear a Jam. You would do this by pushing against anything solid just under the barrel. But with a FLGR ,the rod would prevent this by blocking the slide's ability to be pushed back. This is one reason to have a GI set-up on a 1911 for LE work. On the other hand how many of us on THR would need this feature ? By the way ,this is the reason some LE versions of the 1911 have a rear sight with a ridge on the front edge, so it can be pushed against a belt on you pants or some other object you can push against it to jack the slide .

 

[Oro]

Of course, that's a subjective test based on feel, and not an objective test based on something objectively measurable.

Who said it was by feel? I used run-out gauge and a fixture. I'm quite thorough about testing theories, and have training in the process.

 

[1911Tuner]

What keeps the spring from kinking in a GI 1911?

Besides being limited in its deflection while installed in the gun...as it compresses, it collapses into the plug and over the short rod. Remember that it compresses evenly along its length. When the slide is at the limit of its rearward travel, the spring is encapsulated by the plug and the rod...on its OD and its ID...and the deflection is even further restricted. At that point, the rear face of the plug is nearly touching the front face of the guide rod flange, and the spring is completely enclosed. There's just no space for it to deflect into.