1911 or AK for HD

[General Geoff]

How much effectiveness do you need? If you want to be closer to 100% effective, we can step up the equipment far beyond merely an AK. Let's go with two pit bulls, a moat, a monitored alarm system, steel reinforced doors and frames, no windows, a bullet proof vest, a helmet, a video surveillance system, a triple backed-up power supply and phone system, etc.

Sign me up please! I especially like the moat idea.

 

[Dr.Mall Ninja]

How much effectiveness do you need? If you want to be closer to 100% effective, we can step up the equipment far beyond merely an AK. Let's go with two pit bulls, a moat, a monitored alarm system, steel reinforced doors and frames, no windows, a bullet proof vest, a helmet, a video surveillance system, a triple backed-up power supply and phone system, etc.

you forgot the landmines

 

[MTMilitiaman]

you forgot the landmines

Speak for yourself

 

[sv51macross]

Forgive my O/T, but it is kinda related. [lame rationalization].

Obviously, parkerized steel and polymer (or plain-out AK/Ar pattern rifles) are targets for DA's to go nuts, but at what threshold does it become 'less scary' for the jury? Because I'm looking at a pic of a Mini-14 with the AC-556 style folding stock.
http://www.armslist.com/posts/17880...-mini-14-factory-folding-stock-factory-folder
Would that be a target for persecution? Yes it has alot of blued steel, but would a Jury see the wood and be less uncomfortable with it?
(or what if you had wood furniture on a AR?)

 

[benEzra]

This topic came up a while back on the Jury Expert website, and I weighed in with the following thoughts on HD weapon choice, which may have some relevance here. Portions in quotation marks were questions posed to me.

Disclaimer: I am a technical writer with an interest in firearms, not a lawyer or certified expert, so these are my opinions as a layperson.

"What would you suggest as the ideal weapon for self defense, chez adult female who can handle everything in the study?"

The primary considerations as I see them would be (1) what the individual is most familiar/competent with, (2) what the individual can store responsibly and access quickly in her particular situation, (3) effectiveness, and (4) likelihood of overpenetration. So the ideal choice may differ by individual and setting.

At least anecdotally, it seems that if a self-defense shooting is clearly justifiable by the facts of the case, the model or styling of the weapon used will generally not come into play (assuming the weapon was a legally possessed Title 1 firearm). I am under the impression that weapon choice would generally come into play only if the case were questionable to start with. Weapon choice could play a bigger role in civil suits, though.

"(W)hat are your thoughts on juror perceptions of gender and type of firearm? Do you believe it matters?"

As one who does keep a firearm for defensive purposes, I personally weight projected juror perceptions well below familiarity, access, effectiveness, and overpenetration concerns. In the unlikely event that one needs to use a weapon to protect oneself from death or serious harm, obviously a successful outcome is of primary importance.

"With the scenario of (1) entirely innocent home dweller and (2) intruder a stranger planning to rob, steal, or worse...what factors do you think would aggravate the shooter's case, providing the DA would file?"

Again, I am not a lawyer, but it is my layperson's opinion that the choice of any practical NFA Title 1 firearm (whether handgun, rifle, or shotgun) would be much less important than things like the homeowner's demeanor, aggressive posturing prior to the incident ("trespassers will be shot" signs, that sort of thing), intoxication, and whether the homeowner was engaged in illegal activities at the time. I would expect that factors undermining the components of justifiability, i.e. imminent jeopardy and the mantle of innocence, would take precedence over the aesthetics of the firearm itself.

Where weapon choice can become more of a factor is in a civil case, particularly if an attempt is made to portray the shooting as a negligent discharge rather than intentional self-defense (which, as I understand it, would allow financial recovery from the homeowner's insurance). Demonstrated competence prior to the incident, and intelligent weapon choice (i.e., no hair triggers) can reduce the likelihood of such a claim.

For those who believe lawful use of AR-15's and other modern-looking carbines would be inevitably demonized, do keep in mind that (1) "black rifles" are the most popular civilian rifles in the United States and the most common defensive carbines in U.S. homes, and perhaps more importantly, (2) many police departments are now issuing civilian-style AR-15 .223 carbines in lieu of the traditional 12-gauge shotgun for routine patrol use (i.e., the officer's default long gun in the trunk or roof rack), for reasons that are as germane to non-LEO homeowners as they are to rank-and-file LEO's (limited penetration, less recoil than a shotgun, less chance of ricochet or other downrange hazard to bystanders). In most jurisdictions, a D.A. can no longer with impunity portray modern-looking civilian rifles as inherently "evil" since their own local police department issues them.

I'm not saying the choice of a modern-looking firearm couldn't raise the ire of some unethical or overzealous D.A. in some jurisdictions, such as Southern California or eastern Massachusetts. But in most of the nation, modern-looking carbines are quite mainstream and would no more raise eyebrows than a tactical-stocked Remington 870 would.

 

[gripper]

Another for the AK....I could care less for the biases of an anti-DA LEO or media blissninny....you gotta shoot-pick what's best for you.

 

[Texas Gun Person]

By the way if somebody recommends a 12ga I already know thats the best HD weapon.

Long guns + indoors don't mix in a high tension environment. Handguns are what you need for HD imo.

 

[General Geoff]

Quite the contrary, Texas Gun Person. In a high stress environment, a long gun is far preferable to a pistol. When your hands are shaking from adrenaline, the muzzle of a pistol will be wavering all over the place. Aiming a long gun is not affected as much by such loss of fine motor control.

 

[RumRunner]

some of yall crack me up. you are more worried about what you are gonna look like in court! good Lord! uninvited in this household will earn you a FMJ or two. damn what the courts say. sure am glad i live in the South...

 

[Double Naught Spy]

The primary considerations as I see them would be (1) what the individual is most familiar/competent with, (2) what the individual can store responsibly and access quickly in her particular situation, (3) effectiveness, and (4) likelihood of overpenetration. So the ideal choice may differ by individual and setting.

I liked the above description. I would add the aspect of where I am at the time the HD situation arises and whether I am armed or not. I don't usually walk around my house with an AK, AR, or shotgun, though I am often armed with a 1911.

As others have said, my first priority is to stop the threat. Legal issues will be handled by my lawyer.

 

[BlayGlock]

.45 because the rifle could over-penetrate.

 

[MTMilitiaman]

.45 because the rifle could over-penetrate.

NO! Fail!

Are you accustomed to entering conversations before you realize what is being (and has been) discussed elsewhere or just on THR? Please read at least the first page before posting.

This point has already been discussed, and rebutted, and simply put, you're wrong. Go to "Page 1." Go directly to "Page 1." Do NOT pass "Go." Do NOT collect $200.

 

[okespe04]

If I did not live in town I may keep my AK by my bed. I bet it would do a really good job. I would keep my 40 rounder in it probably. But I do live in town so I keep my 1911 next to my bed these days. It will do the trick too.

 

[LS240]

I think everyone needs to read the whole thread before posting. Seriously.

And just for the record, I keep a 12G 870 filled with 6 rounds of buckshot next to my bed. I figure it's got more than enough power to handle most HD circumstances and if I were worried about what a jury would think(though I'm not), it's just a little 'ole pump gun. Heck it's even got a little bit o' camo on it. Nothing evil about that.

 

[Rezin]

Buy a shotgun...........