1911 +p mods
- Thread starter dakotasin
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JeffC
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To eat them all day long I'd add a EGW firing pin stop and a CP tuff buff buffer.
model 649
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When you say "+p" do you mean loads that run higher pressure than the SAAMI maximum of 21,000 psi? If so, then it would be prudent to have your frame cut to accept a ramped barrel (providing more case-head support), and generally beefing up the rest of the gun as posted above. I would even go, depending on bullet weight, to a 21 lb. recoil spring at least. Anyone else?
Josh
Josh
649- i don't know what i mean, really... i'm just kind of testing the waters for the moment to determine if it is prudent to run in excess of 9 grains of power pistol behind a 185 jhp - or, roughly 1125 f/s w/ 185's. or, if i should just run a 'normal' load of 185's at 965 f/s... and if it is ok, how i can keep the load from battering the gun, and maintain function.
I gotta ask why? Noise and recoil are sure bets for things to be gained, and with most bullets you can just about bet on bullet failure in flesh at speeds that high. Bonded core bullets or perhaps the XTP might hold up at those speeds.
If it were me and I just had to shoot hot loads I would run two buffs on the frame end and one on the slide end of the recoil guide rod, leave the 16 pound spring in it or go to an 18 tops, anything heavier is going to beat the snot out of your gun when it closes. You can use buffs to tame the impact on the frame in recoil, but there is nothing you can do to protect the frame from heavy springs when the slide closes. Odds are that the gun won't function with three buffs in it unless you go to a purpose built guide rod, Cominoli makes one that compensates for buffers for example.
I would just live with 1000 fps or less.
If it were me and I just had to shoot hot loads I would run two buffs on the frame end and one on the slide end of the recoil guide rod, leave the 16 pound spring in it or go to an 18 tops, anything heavier is going to beat the snot out of your gun when it closes. You can use buffs to tame the impact on the frame in recoil, but there is nothing you can do to protect the frame from heavy springs when the slide closes. Odds are that the gun won't function with three buffs in it unless you go to a purpose built guide rod, Cominoli makes one that compensates for buffers for example.
I would just live with 1000 fps or less.
thanks for the thoughts. you touched on another thing i was struggling w/, and that was bullet performance.
but noise is not an issue... it is pretty loud even w/ mild factory loads. recoil doesn't bother me, but i am concerned about its effects on the gun.
but noise is not an issue... it is pretty loud even w/ mild factory loads. recoil doesn't bother me, but i am concerned about its effects on the gun.
Jim Watson
Member
I'd go with Jeff and Rock: EGW firing pin stop with the corner just dulled enough to not gouge the hammer face, GI mainspring, 18 lb recoil spring, buffer checked frequently. And still expect to pay with more wear and tear on the gun than with standard loads. No stinking integral ramp barrels for me.
The XTP is probably the toughest autopistol bullet on the mass market, but if I were going to go deer hunting I'd use the 230 grain. If you are just going for the fireworks, shoot the 185s.
The XTP is probably the toughest autopistol bullet on the mass market, but if I were going to go deer hunting I'd use the 230 grain. If you are just going for the fireworks, shoot the 185s.
1911Tuner
Moderator Emeritus
Plus-Pee
A couple of things to keep in mind when dealing with a steady diet of higher than normal pressures.
The recoil spring has very little...if anything...to do with containing pressure. Its effect is minimal because by the time it compresses enough to offer any useful resistance to the slide and barrel unlocking, the bullet is gone and the pressures have fallen off to nearly zip. The slide moves about 1/10th of an inch when unlocking begins. The only resistance that the recoil spring offers is that amount over its static preload of roughly 3.5 pounds.
The most important thing is locking lug engagement. (Assuming correct unlock/linkdown timing.) The more, the better. All three lugs sharing the load thrust equally is ideal... with all three lugs engaging at the maximum depth allowed by the geometry of that particular gun. Some will sit deeper in the slide's recesses than others...Some less. Depth is a little less important than equal horizontal engagement. The trouble is that, only rarely does a factory-fit barrel deliver that ideal. Usually, only two bear the load, and sometimes, only one. If you're lucky, it's the strongest, most supported lug...#1. If you're not, you can expect shortened barrel life due to increasing headspace as the lug(s) are set back by the pounding.
Using the EGW firing pin stop with a small radius will delay the slide a tick longer and allow pressures to drop a bit lower before unlocking begins, and allow the use of a standard recoil spring to better control frame battering.
A 23 or 25-pound mainspring will help a little too. Everything means something.
Moving down the list, good headspace is important. The closer to minimum
you start, the longer it will take for it to reach unacceptable dimensions. Again, most factory-fit barrels...essentially drop-in...are given a "pass" as long as they're under maximum. Most fall somewhere between .908 and .915
inch, with .920 being the limit. I like about .902 inch, but that's just me. Some like to see it at minimum or even a bit less. (Headspace is the distance between the breechface and the cartridge stop shoulder with the gun in battery.)
Luck!
A couple of things to keep in mind when dealing with a steady diet of higher than normal pressures.
The recoil spring has very little...if anything...to do with containing pressure. Its effect is minimal because by the time it compresses enough to offer any useful resistance to the slide and barrel unlocking, the bullet is gone and the pressures have fallen off to nearly zip. The slide moves about 1/10th of an inch when unlocking begins. The only resistance that the recoil spring offers is that amount over its static preload of roughly 3.5 pounds.
The most important thing is locking lug engagement. (Assuming correct unlock/linkdown timing.) The more, the better. All three lugs sharing the load thrust equally is ideal... with all three lugs engaging at the maximum depth allowed by the geometry of that particular gun. Some will sit deeper in the slide's recesses than others...Some less. Depth is a little less important than equal horizontal engagement. The trouble is that, only rarely does a factory-fit barrel deliver that ideal. Usually, only two bear the load, and sometimes, only one. If you're lucky, it's the strongest, most supported lug...#1. If you're not, you can expect shortened barrel life due to increasing headspace as the lug(s) are set back by the pounding.
Using the EGW firing pin stop with a small radius will delay the slide a tick longer and allow pressures to drop a bit lower before unlocking begins, and allow the use of a standard recoil spring to better control frame battering.
A 23 or 25-pound mainspring will help a little too. Everything means something.
Moving down the list, good headspace is important. The closer to minimum
you start, the longer it will take for it to reach unacceptable dimensions. Again, most factory-fit barrels...essentially drop-in...are given a "pass" as long as they're under maximum. Most fall somewhere between .908 and .915
inch, with .920 being the limit. I like about .902 inch, but that's just me. Some like to see it at minimum or even a bit less. (Headspace is the distance between the breechface and the cartridge stop shoulder with the gun in battery.)
Luck!
thanks for the help guys.
after some thinking on the issue and reading some responses here, i can't come up w/ a good enough reason to do it and beating the tar out of the gun w/o good reason isn't appealing to me, so i'll just stick w/ my sedate loads of 985 f/s w/ 185's... more than enough for anything i need to do.
thanks again.
after some thinking on the issue and reading some responses here, i can't come up w/ a good enough reason to do it and beating the tar out of the gun w/o good reason isn't appealing to me, so i'll just stick w/ my sedate loads of 985 f/s w/ 185's... more than enough for anything i need to do.
thanks again.
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