1911 Slide Releases

[Eschaton]

While at the range/gunshop today I was playing around with a Springfield Armory 1911. The gun felt absolutely perfect in my hand, nice and slim with just a solid feel to it.

However, the slide release is too far away for me to be able to reach with my thumb. Same thing with a Kimber Warrior I was looking at, too. Is there any way to change this or would I need to go to a smaller sized 1911?

 

[David E]

There is no need whatsoever to change it.

Proper technique either has you using your left hand to grasp the top of the slide behind the ejection port and pulling back and releasing, or simply using the left thumb to activate the slidestop immediately following the reload.

 

[Eschaton]

Oh.

I was going to type up a haughty response on how you can't read because my thumb can't reach. But then I read it again and you said my left thumb. I'll have to give that a try next time I try one out. Thanks

 

[Jim K]

There are (or were) after market slide stops with thumbpieces extended to the rear.

Some folks have the blue willies if you even mention releasing the slide by using the slide stop rather than by pulling the slide to the rear; I consider that if the slide stop or the slide is damaged by releasing the slide with the slide stop, something is wrong with the material or heat treatment of the parts.

Jim

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

It is no big deal to me, and is also a trait shared with S&W metal-frame pistols. You can either trip it with the thumb of your support hand - for which it is perfectly placed - or you can turn the gun in your hand a little. An extended slide stop can - or is theoretically possible to - bounce up into the slide notch while firing. No thanks.

 

[Zerodefect]

I wish the 1911 was missing the slide release,.......and the safety lever, and the grip safety!


I stopped using the slide release on reloads. I rack the slide for better reliability and its kinda practice for tap/rack/bangs.

 

[David E]

Both methods should be practiced, but I prefer using the slide stop to release the slide on a 1911. It's quicker and, for me, very reliable.

 

[Claude Clay]

IT IS A SLIDE STOP

in an emergency do whatever is required but
use it for what is was designed to be otherwise

to see a slide damaged by using the 'release' look at where the very last part of the 'release' touches the slide----the metal on the slide is distorted. all the spring pressure of the slide wanted to go foward is being held back by such a small area--and area not designed for that use.

 

[Mags]

I don't use the slide stop on my 1911 to rack the slide forward. I always just pull the slide back with my left hand and it disengages the slide stop and racks forward.

 

[1911Tuner]

in an emergency do whatever is required but
use it for what is was designed to be otherwise

It was designed to be used as a slide release. That's why it had/has checkering or serrations on it...for good purchase. If it hadn't been intended to be used as such, it would have been milled flat.

If the gun won't operate properly using either method to release the slide, something's wrong. Get it fixed.

all the spring pressure of the slide wanted to go foward is being held back by such a small area--and area not designed for that use.

Of course it was. It was designed to lock the slide to the rear when the gun is empty...over and over and over. If it becomes damaged s a result of functioning as it was intended...the steel is soft. Replace it....or it could be that the stop is bouncing partially into the notch during firing. Not enough to lock the slide...but enough to get dinged when the slide hits it. Again...Fix it.

I have hard-use range beaters that have locked untold thousands of times...without damage to the slide or the slidestop.

And it's not called a stop because it stops the slide when the gun is empty. It's called a stop because it stops the slide from flying off the front of the frame.

 

[Eric F]

Here is a thought supose your left hand is busy say holding a phone while on the phone calling the police or holding a door shut because a bg is trying to stab you or maybe your left hand is shot up/off. Its good to learn to be one handed.

 

[1911Tuner]

Here's a thought...

Reload before the gun is empty instead of letting it tell you that you've scrood up by shooting it dry. It's a stoppage, no matter how you cut it. A stoppage is a bad thing to have when you need for the gun to go bang.

Another thought is that if you have to reload before you've solved your problem...you're probably in way over your head to start with. If you have solved your problem...you've got all the time in the world to reload.

 

[REAPER4206969]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zVGQQhkjzec

 

[DeepSouth]

http://www.midwayusa.com/viewProduct/?productNumber=710822

 

[REAPER4206969]

From the API 250 General Pistol Course student handbook, circa 1988...

Auto Pistol Modification Table

Necessary

High Visibility Sights (including ramped front)
Dehorning (rounding all sharp corners)
A good trigger (3 1/2 to 4 1/2 pounds, crisp)


Useful

Solid Bushing
Enlarged Ejection Port
Beveled Magazine Well
Extended Thumb Safety
Throated Barrel and Polished Feed Ramp
Round and Polish Bottom of Extractor Hook
Press Fit of Firing Pin Stop
Lanyard Loop

OK

Magazine Floor Plate Pads
Colored Sights
Flat Mainspring Housing
Spring Modification to Magazine Release
Accuracy (Combat Accuracy Job - slight tightening of slide, solid bushing without being tight, fit of barrel hood, link and slide stop to barrel lugs - 3 to 5 inches at 50 yards.)

Questionable

Duck Tail Grip Safety
Ambidextrous Thumb Safety (necessary for left-handed shooters)
Custom Stocks
Stainless Steel Parts
Recoil Buffer
Trigger Stop ( for over-travel)

Objectionable

Sight Rib
Optical Sights
Trigger Shoe
Extended Slide Stop
Squared or Hooked Trigger Guard
Loaded Chamber Indicator
Double-Action Conversion
Muzzle Brake
Over-length Barrel
Extended Magazine Release
Recoil Spring Guide Rod
Long Slide
Group Gripper
Ejector Modified to Drop Brass Close
Accuracy (Maximum Accuracy Job - 1 3/4 to 2 1/2 inches at 50 yards, hard fit and lapping, maximum tightness, etc.

.....

 

[Mad Magyar]

consider that if the slide stop or the slide is damaged by releasing the slide with the slide stop, something is wrong with the material or heat treatment of the parts.

+ 1 I always thought that it was the only way....

 

[1911Tuner]

Reaper...One man's method and opinion. Sounds more like he's teaching a class on how to operate the pistol instead of how to survive a gunfight.

Again...A locked, empty pistol is a stoppage. Stoppages take time to clear, no matter what the cause. If we're in so deep that we actually need a reload...time is a luxury that we don't have.

TIME to realize the pistol is empty and the slide is locked. (This is the big one.)

TIME to fumble and find the button.

TIME to insert the other magazine...also likely shaking and fumbling.

TIME to release the slide...regardless of the method.

TIME for the slide to go to battery...which is incidentally one of the two most likely times to experience a misfeed, regardless of how many times that the gun has been reliable in practice. (Top round during a slidelocked reload, and last round. It's a momentum thing on the former. A magazine thing on the latter.)

TIME to reaquire the target.

All that time adds up fast in a gunfight. Too fast to catch up.

Count rounds out loud in practice. Two at a time works best. 1-2...3-4...5-6 and reload. It will train your autoresponse to count them when you find yourself up to your crack in crocodiles. It works. Better for you to decide when to reload than for the gun to decide for you. Faster too. You omit the first five time wasting phases and skip directly to reaquiring the target.

 

[sniper350]

It will train your autoresponse to count them when you find yourself up to your crack in crocodiles

New students ask me "Why are we loading only 6 rounds in our magazines?"

10 weeks later they realize the method to my maddness when after firing 6 rounds they automatically reach for a "fresh" mag to Re-load - without counting or even thinking ! -- the "Motor Memory" has been built into their training process. Like Tuner has said running a pistol "dry" is a stoppage ! plain and simple.

I do , however, believe STRONGLY in using the "slingshot" method of charging the semi-auto pistol. This is the only method I teach. It allows my students to pick up 99.99% of the semi-auto pistols and charge them --even in a dark environment where looking for that ever changing slide stop location ( from model to model ) would be impossible. It also affords a tiny amount of extra force to delvelop from the recoil spring when loading the round......... and in some cases that extra "push" might have been needed to get the job done?? and saves your Butt !!

To each his own .......

JF.

 

[David E]

TIME to realize the pistol is empty and the slide is locked. (This is the big one.)

One of the first things I teach is to be able to discern, by feeling the recoil alone, when the slide locks open. It is a subtle, yet distinct, senstation. Once learned, it saves all kinds of time in the reload sequence. You won't ever be the guy that everyone laughs at when you try to pull the trigger one more when the slide is locked open.

Count rounds out loud in practice.

Nope, I won't do that. I'll have far too many others things to worry about other than counting my rounds. To suggest that one would be able to count rounds in a deadly firefight, yet "fumble to find the button" followed by a shaking magazine during the reload is inconsistent.

I do , however, believe STRONGLY in using the "slingshot" method of charging the semi-auto pistol. This is the only method I teach. It allows my students to pick up 99.99% of the semi-auto pistols and charge them

Interesting. All of the top trainers I know teach the overhand method because it is much more positive than the slingshot method.

 

[sniper350]

Interesting. All of the top trainers I know teach the overhand method because it is much more positive than the slingshot method.

Two reasons that I don't.....although I have nothing against this method if continous training is used by the shooter.

First: Shooters, under stress, will accidentally block the ejection port causing a Jam. This happens during clearing a miss fire or light primer strike or whenever you need to clear a round "already" inside the chamber.

Second: Shooters can have a tendency to "ride" the Slide when performing a reload .......... depends on the speed at which they can remove their hand. As you well know ........"fine" motor skills are affected first when under extreme stress ........ and what we see as simple movements can become difficult tasks under stress.

I don't teach the Rambo student ....... just the average businessman or housewife needing handgun training .......... so I can't depend on them continuing their training beyond the 15 weeks that my course runs. If I can get them to commit to shooting one box of ammo EVERY MONTH......I feel I am doing well. So I try to leave the student with a skill-set that will work with the limited training that the combat course provides. No fancy frills -- just plain, simple fool proof ( I hope ) techniques that will put them ahead of 95% of the average handgun shooter. I get these figures from the fact that my students are required to pass a 120 round combat course with absolutely NO misses in order to receive a "Certificate of Completion ...... a feat that 95 % of LEO's could not pass first or second time through.

JF.

 

[Claude Clay]

http://www.recguns.com/Pictures/Images/45schem.gif

i could not find a single diagram or manufacture that refers to the part as anything other than a 'SLIDE STOP'

it is serrated cause in in emergency if your hands a slippery, covered with blood or a glove you can used it to release the slide an in a positive manor.

counting shots is a skill some have or can learn. i do know that doing so saves me more than 1/2 second in a IDPA or any kind of match requiring a reload.

releasing the slide with weak thumb on same side of gun as strong thumb keeps the gun close in to you and allows you to push the gun to the target as the slide is moving. sling shotting requires more motions and is less smooth.

sniper350-- i like that your teaching ideas deal with reality.

 

[1911Tuner]

It is a subtle, yet distinct, senstation.

Yep...and it's one of the things that the average to above average shooter won't notice in the adrenalin-charged scenario that a firefight is. Many reports of Rebs and Yanks loading 3 or 4 cartridges in their muskets because they didn't realize that the rifles hadn't fired when they pulled the triggers. If a man can't feel the recoil of a .58 caliber rifled musket in the heat of the moment...he sure ain't gonna feel the subtle difference between a pistol that goes to battery and one that locks. In practice...sure. In a fight...not very likely.

Besides...sometimes the empty pistol doesn't lock the slide. It's the third most likely malfunction, following closely behind failure to feed and failure to eject...so I refuse to rely on it.

Counting rounds in practice can be done aloud or silently...and it programs the subconscious to count them automatically. It takes time, but it does work.

As far as the slodestop/slidelock/slide release...I strive to insure that it works perfectly as closely as I can...though nothing can be made to work "perfectly...and then I ignore it. I assume that it won't function as an empty gun slidelock...and focus instead on keeping the gun in the game without its function.

I normally only practice with two magazines....both 7 round and both loaded to capacity. I count 6 rounds in the first...drop it and reload with the chamber hot...and go to the spare. I shoot it to slidelock...also counting rounds two at a time...and use the last round to hit a stop gong. If I miss a designated target, and have to shoot the stop signal round...I've failed the exercise.

Why only two magazines?

I'm not a SET/SWAT guy training to clear a house or engage a band of terorists. I'm Joe Citizen going about my business. 99.9% of the problems that I'd encounter requiring a gun to extract myself from won't require a large volume of ammunition because I don't plan on becoming involved in a running gun battle. I intend to shoot and scoot. If I can't accomplish that with 14 rounds of .45 ACP, I probably can't do it with 20 or 30 rounds, either...and the only hope that I have to keep me alive at that point is Divine Intervention.

 

[Walkalong]

If a man can't feel the recoil of a .58 caliber rifled musket in the heat of the moment...he sure ain't gonna feel the subtle difference between a pistol that goes to battery and one that locks.

Been there done that, didn't feel it, and it wasn't even life threatening. Adrenaline goes up and quiet, non stress practice memories go out the window.

 

[1911Tuner]

Adrenaline goes up and quiet, non stress practice memories go out the window.

Fer real. People have been shot without knowing it until after the fight is over.

 

[The Lone Haranguer]

If the gun won't operate properly using either method to release the slide, something's wrong. Get it fixed.

Similarly, I weary of being told only to use one method over the other.