1911 Stuck slide

[Gun Geezer]

Shooting today and old faithful let me down. The slide is stuck as follows:
1. Spent case in chamber. It is spent, thank goodness not a live round. Brass slightly visible between slide and barrel at the ejection port.
2. Case is free to move about 1/16".
3. Ejector is visible on the case rim, in correct position to eject if slide went full back.
4. Hammer at full cock.
5. Slide back slightly about 3/8".
6. Slide will move back and forth about 1/16"

I was shooting a competition and she just stuck up.

The bushing will not turn. The slide release lever is 3/8" away from the slide recess it needs to be in to remove the lever.

I live in a small town. No gun smith for 45 miles.

How do I get the slide off?

 

[1911Tuner]

Problems

I'm on it through a PM that Steve sent.

So far, no word on exactly what happened...but educated guess is that it's
either a broken link or sheared lower lug, with broken piece(s) wedged up in the works. Heartbreak Hotel...

My bet is that it's a busted lug...We'll see.

 

[JeffC]

That sounds like an ugly situation, not much more you can do but take a rubber or nylon mallet right? Rapp the barrel back, and down on the hood, alternating till the slide will go back far enough to knock out the slide stop...

WWJMBD?

 

[Old Fuff]

See if you can turn the barrel bushing (may require a wrench) and if possible remove it and the the recoil spring and plug. With these out of the way the barrel may be freed up enough to get something to move.

Second idea. Get a wood dowel that is large enough so that it will just slip down the barrel and tap on the inside/base of the case. You may be able to drive it back far enough to release things.

 

[Gun Geezer]

Guys, thanks for the advice.

I tried hammering the barrel and slide but it is really stuck. I proceeded to use a drimmel and cut through the slide release lever. I pushed out the pin and the slide came off. The barrel is major league seized up inside the compensator (comp replaced the original bushing). The comp and barrel turn/rotate as one but the barrel will NOT slide through the comp. Right now, the barrel/slide/compensator is soaking in Hoppes solvent, hoping something will loosen up.

I sent a PM to Tuner as follows on the status as of late last night.
=========================================================

Cutting throught the slide release lever with the Drimmel was easy. The slide came off the frame.

However, the barrel is siezed into the compensator (The comp replaced the regular bushing).

Used a dowel rod on the muzzle end of the barrel and hammered the heck out of the barrel to no avail. Fliped the slide over and used a block on the lug and hammered it till I broke the block. Repeated with other blocks. No good.

The barrel is seized hard in the compensator.

I have it soaking in copper/lead/ete. remover now and will whack it again in the morning. I was shooting lots of lead ball ammo and mabe the lead built up and cause the sieze? It has never happened before, though.

No idea how to get the compensator off and save the slide. I could get a new barrel. But if the barrel won't budge I guess the Drimmel will get another job to do: cut off the lug so I can rotate the barrel in the slide and thus get the comp off.

Any thoughts on the next step? :banghead:

 

[1911Tuner]

Still Stuck

Hey Steve,

Got your PM about it bein' a comp gun...and about the lead bullets...and now we know what's happened. Glad I called it wrong, by the way. Sheared lugs ain't good.

Lead fouling between the compensator and the barrel has essentially soldered the two together. I got the information too late, since you've already soaked it in solvent...but maybe you can wash it out with carburetor cleaner...and follow it up with brake cleaner to get all the carrier evaporated from it.

Heating it to about 400 degrees in an oven for 30 minutes may soften the lead deposits enough to get the comp off the barrel. You may have to
heat it more than once, and apply mucho macho upper-body and hand strength to do it though...400 degrees won't affect the steel, since it's well below the lower critical temperature for annealing or hardening.

You'll need welding gloves.

JeffC! WWJMB do? He'd scratch his head and say:

"You hung WHAT on the end of my pistol???"



Luck!

 

[Gun Geezer]

Thanks Tuner! If the solvent fails, I will head for the oven. Not sure what my wife will say about a gun in the oven She is a trooper. She'll get over it.

Couple more questions:
1. Are there any springs and such in the slide that 400F will damage?

2. As I have fired hundreds of lead bullets in single shooting sessions lots of times, why would this happen now? I am thinking lead on this batch was too soft.

3. Is a compensator more likely to have this issue than a regular bushing?

4. I need new parts as follows. Suggestions on best web site for purchase would be helpful: slide release lever, extractor, and maybe barrel. The night sights are not going to like the oven either but I think I have that covered.

 

[mete]

400F shouldn't hurt anything.

 

[Sam38]

Stuck Comp

Hi Steve,

Another thing you may want to try is to soak the whole slide in a solution of 50% vinegar and 50% hydrogen perioxide (from the drug store). The solution will dissolve away the lead deposits while you are watching. When the bubbles stop, drain and replenish the solution. Repeat as necessary.

Wear latex gloves (the solution with the dissolved lead is nasty) and be careful that you wash dry and oil the slide and barrel afterwards -- otherwise you'll get some rust and pitting.

 

[Old Fuff]

Steve:

Yup, the compensator changes the whole situation. I hope you don't have anything like this in the future, but if something does happen be sure to include all of the details.

Besides what Tuner has said, there is a slim possibility that there was an obstruction in the barrel, and the following shot bulged it inside of the bushing.

When you fire a round the compensator is pulled back over the barrel as the slide moves backwards. This allows heated/semi-soft lead to be deposited on the end of the barrel's circumference. Most gamers avoid this by using a "comp" that's attached to the barrel, not the bushing.

For parts, accessories, tools & supplies - more then you ever dreamed of - go to: www.brownells.com Then order a copy of they're hard-copy catalog.

They also offer excellent advice - for free. Before you do much more, see what they suggest. Call (800) 741-0015 and ask for Dave Bennetts. He gets into all kinds of stuff and often comes up with solutions I'd never think of. If you've decided what parts you need you can order them at the same time. Overnight delivery is available if necessary.

 

[HankL]

Fuff, This sounds like one of those EFK Bushing Comps that Brownell's offers to the unsuspecting.
As pure lead melts at 612 F I wouldn't think 400 F would soften things up much but who knows. Sounds like Sam38 has a good idea to me.

 

[JeffC]

JeffC! WWJMB do? He'd scratch his head and say:

"You hung WHAT on the end of my pistol???"

LOL!

Wow, I didn't know it had a "Comp-Bushing" either, I'm wondering about a squib load now?

 

[Old Fuff]

HankL:

Powder gas is hot enough to melt the base of a soft lead bullet, and this particular bushing/compensator can trap some of it as the compensator part of the bushing moves back over the barrel. Also as the pistol goes into battery I presume the bushing/barrel fit might be tight enough so that a little lead (solder) could go a long way. Anyone who has ever de-leaded a comp (High Standard used to provide a special tool to scrape it out) will soon realize that these devices can adversely effect accuracy if they aren’t kept clean. I personally have no use for them, but If I did I would use full-jacketed bullets exclusively. I think that EFK presumes this would be the case, but it would help if Brownells (and others) added a warning in the catalog description.

At the moment I think we might be dealing with a wedge fit rather then a truly soldered one, or a combination thereof, but Tuner might be right – he usually is. The vinegar/hydrogen peroxide solution might work, but it would take time, and I’d worry about how it could affect the pistols finish and/or the barrel’s bore, as the whole muzzle end of the barrel would have to be submerged in the stuff for a long period of time. If the bushing is removed without being damaged this would be a good way to de-lead it however.

“Cooking†the slide assembly might work, but if the barrel wasn’t moved quickly the lead/solder would cool and make this worse rather then better.

If this happened to me (unlikely) I’d run it past Dave Bennetts at Brownells before I did anything drastic.

 

[HankL]

Old Fuff, I understand the concept. I have two compensated 1911 toys but they are done in the traditional manner and I have never shot lead out of either anyway. I agree that a disclaimer would be helpful.

Now for the fun part. I just got through running an experiment using Sam's
50/50 mixture of vinegar and hydrogen peroxide. I soaked a 200 gr 45 caliber
SWC for two hours. Prior to soaking I scraped the sides of the bullet to remove some of the lube. It weighed 203.2 grains going in and 195.1 grains after being washed off and wiped dry! Of the 8.1 grain reduction some of it was a soft product of the reaction that wiped off of the bullet. Now, if someone with a scrap blued part and a bit of barrel steel around the shop would continue the experiment we would really be getting somewhere.

 

[Old Fuff]

Yup... I have no doubt what the solution will do to a lead bullet, but it will take longer - maybe a lot longer - to work its way between a tightly(?) fitted barrel and bushing. Now if the problem is being caused by a soldering effect then this might well cure it, but I wouldn't care to risk the funish on the slide and condition of my barrel's bore until I had eliminated any other options and knew a lot more about it.

If the barrel and slide, recoil spring plug, etc. were made of stainless that might make a difference.

I also have a hunch that if this solution worked without any ill effects it would be more widely recommended as a lead remover then it apparently is.

But yes, I would like to see some experiments. Maybe sam38 is on to something.

 

[1911Tuner]

The Solution

I remember reading somewhere...can't remember where...that the white vinegar and peroxide solution attacks stainless more aggressively than carbon steel...though it was reported that it did turn the lead deposits in the barrel to a grungy foam that wiped out easily. Sorta like Easy Off oven cleaner, I guess...Never tried it myself.

 

[HankL]

Wait and See?

I have the chamber end of a blued 10-22 barrel hanging in the solution right now. I'll report back on that a little later. No room in the small container to introduce any stainless. Did Steve ever say what his involved parts are made of or how they are finished?

 

[Gun Geezer]

Wow. I have tapped into the mother load of informal info. You guys been doing this for a while I see!

I did not know having comp was an issue. I got it out of Cabela's and ever saw any "caution" about lead bullets. Makes sense though. Should have mentioned it and the lead factor in the first post. Maybe I would not have cut of the slide stop lever. I TOOK A DRIMMEL TO MY BABY!!! I SHOULD DIE FOR THIS!! Live and learn. :banghead:

The gun is not stainless. It has a black finish.

I really want to save the slide. New barrels are cheaper.

Since the barrel will rotate in the slide, what do you guys think about just taking a drimmel to the lug on the bottom of the barrel so the barrel (and comp) will rotate as needed for the comp to separate from the slide? This way I do not loose the slide to any pitting or attack from the peroxide/venegar solution.

I wait to hear about the effet of the "solution" on that blued 10/22.

Thoughts?

 

[HankL]

When Things Get Stuck

Patience is a great big virtue my friend. Leave that Dremel alone for a while longer.

 

[HankL]

Sam38 May have it.
Disclaimers first. YRMV As Old Fuff said, It may take a lot longer for you to get the desired results than the short little experiment we have run here.
The solution may begin attacking your pistols blueing before the lead begins to soften.
If it does something to your barrel so what, you are already prepaired to go after the lug with a Dremel.
Worst case new barrel and a reblued slide?
Best case all Steve needs is a new slide stop.
The 50 50 mixture of White Vinegar and U.S.P. Hydrogen Peroxide 3% did soften lead and did not harm the blueing or chamber on a take off Ruger barrel.

I had it immersed down to the rear sight. The shiny spots were there prior to the experiment

 

[JeffC]

Now I'm half lost.... the barrel will rotate in the slide??? It's not frozen to the comp bushing?

Cutting the slide stop off... a neccessary evil, but it'll only cost you $20 for a replacement.

Back to the barrel, it rotates freely? Or it moves with the bushing?

 

[Gun Geezer]

I already cut off the slide stop. The slide/barrel/compensator combo is off of the frame. The spring is out, also.

The barrel and compensator are siezed together, so the barrel and comp rotate as one. Of course the barrel rotates inside the slide and the comp rotates on the end of the slide. But, the comp/barrel combo will not rotate far enough (because of the lug on the bottome of the barrel) for the compensator to disengage from the slide. If they would rotate far enough then I could disengage the comp from the slide and remove the barrel from the slide.

I am using a syringe and needle to apply "the solution" around the end of the barrel at the comp. It bubbles like crazy, but the barrel and comp are not loose from each other yet. If this works, it could take several days.

Sorry for the confusion. Thanks for the help.

I will keep you posted on progress.

 

[1911Tuner]

Slow Progress

AwHellCookThatPuppy!

 

[Pointman1776]

Just take the grips off first, whether wood or rubber or plastic.

 

[HankL]

Pointman, Why would he want to do that if he's only working on the slide?