1911 Thumb Safety - gun or Me?

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mbopp

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I bought a new to me Springfield and it's my first real experience with a 1911. It has an ambi safety and on several occasions now the halves have loosened and the left (main) side walked out of the frame, once far enough that the spring and plungers popped out. Now I know the safety comes out when the lever is between "safe" and "fire" but I can't figure out why it wants to walk out on its own. I don't use a thumb over the safety grip but I don't think I'm putting any upward pressure on the lever either. Any ideas?
 
Poor fit where they fit together in the middle. You can take it out and squeeze one side to grip better, but it may not hold up.
 
Your low hold is probably allowing the thumb safety to either jump up or get bumped up and catches in the hole and starts to wander out. I agree that a better fit between the halves can make a difference. Adopting a high hold feels awkward at first, but will add control, and faster recovery with practice.

CAW
 
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The fit between the safeties has nothing to do with the left side "walking". The normal safety or the left side of the ambi safety is/should be held in by the lug on the safety fitting under the frame cut so that it can come out at only one position. (It is not held by the plunger, either, in spite of what many people believe.)

If the safety is factory, return the gun to Springfield. If it is not, replace it with one that is properly made.

The right side thumbpiece is held on by the right grip and by some tension at the joint.

Jim
 
The thumb safety is absolutely kept in place through it's range of motion/use except the mid-position where it can come out, by the lug in the frame hole. So, up or down it will not come out, but with a loose joint on an ambi style, the left side does not have the support of a single sided safety. This added sloppiness contributes to the left side coming out when a low hold is accompanying the other discrepancies in fit.

CAW
 
OK, so I did some playing around with it.
I took out the right side lever and put a punch in the pivot hole. With the safety in the "on" position it took only 1/32" or so of downward movement on the safety to allow it to be popped out of the frame. So if the halves loosen up and the right side lever gets pushed into the frame (pushing the left side out) it doesn't take much to let the left side of the safety come out of the frame. Me thinks I'll give Springfield a call about it even though I'm not the original owner.
 
Correct. What I like to do with a loose joint is tighten it up. With jewelers file I slightly taper the tongue so it is larger at the end than at the shoulder, like a dove tail, but so little you can't really see it, and do the same with the groove. It may need to be tightened as part of this fitting, but once right it will snap together, and not come loose incidentally while shooting.

CAW
 
Since it is an ambi, and the right side comes out, the left then only has a half pin, and allows an increase in the wobble factor,(tech) and will work it's way out. Just working the grip safety encourages a separation, and if bumped a little can begin it's exit. Loose joint ambi's should not be tolerated whether shooting left or right handed.

CAW
 
Well...I guess the onlky way to settle this one is to put it to the test. I've got an ambi safety that I took out of a friend's pistol and installed a standard unit. He removed the right side because he didn't need it and it got in his way. Used it like that for about 6 months and asked me if I had one that I could retrofit to his gun. He never said anything about it walking out.

So...I'll stick the right side in one of the beater twins and have at it. I figger that about 500 rounds oughta tell the tale. Dunno when I'll get around to it in this heat, though. Y'all might hafta wait a couple weeks.
 
The proof is in the OP's gun it is the one that is failing. No doubt the safety lug may now also be worn. If it never separated to begin with it never would have happened. It would never happen to me either as I use a high hold and my thumb would keep the safety from jumping up. 100k rounds with a different gun, safety, and shooter proves nothing. Most failures with the 1911 have several contributing factors. This one has at least three. Once it separates and gains a smidgin of space between the shield and frame, the plunger begins to ride on the inside corner instead of on the edge, and in the detent when in fire, and this actually spring loads the safety to come out. The problem is obviously the safety on several fronts at this point.

CAW
 
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It may not be definitive, but it'll offer some evidence as to whether or not that's what is actually happening.

FWIW, I've never noticed any wobble in half an ambi safety, and I've seen a few. There are many people who buy the gun because they like it, but find that the right side of the safety annoys them...and promptly remove it. Some get around to fitting a standard unit, and some don't bother.

If the safety and its hole in the frame are within spec...and the crosspin hole in the frame and the grip safety are straight...the thumb safety ain't gonna wobble its way out.
 
The way I figure it, the left side should stay in regardless if the right side is in or not. The left safety should not rely on the halves staying together to stay in the frame.
I called Springfield, explained what was happening, & they gave me an RO number to return it. The LGS where I bought it wants to have a look also.
This is a TRP, the S/N says it was made in 2007 but it really looks like it was somebody's safe queen. I put more wear scratches on the trigger, grip safety, and mag followers in 800 rounds than there were when I bought it.
So, when it gets sorted out I'll let you all know.
 
Oh, okay, the half pin through one frame tang and half way into the grip safety which is sprung on the opposite side is just as secure as a pin going all the way through to the right side frame tang, I'll amend my opinion as I'm sure you are correct. Besides it couldn't happen anyway, non-issue.

CAW
 
Assuming again?

Never said that it was as good as the pin completely through. I said that I'd never noticed any noticeable amount of wobble with only the left half of an ambi safety in a gun. It's still riding in a closely sized hole in the grip safety that would tend to limit such movement, and if the grip safety twists enough in its mooring to let the safety get cattywampus enough to walk out...there are bigger problems with the gun than a misfitted safety.

The right side is held closely to the frame by an arm under the grip, or...with the Mueshke design...by a slot cut into a long sear pin that an edge of the safety rides in. The coupling may loosen up, but the right side ain't gonna go anywhere...so pushing on it inadvertently won't push the left side out even if it's in the takedown position.

When you thumb the safety on and off...you're pushing in as well as up and down, whether you realize it or not.

Study on it. Stick one side in a pistol and see how much movement there is. Go shoot it like that and see if it walks out on its own accord.
 
Hardly, you stated that you knew of those who ran with only the left side in the frame, and ran fine. That isn't making an assumption, you said it, and I agreed. Just because the right side loosens, and doesn't fall out, nor will actually activate the left side isn't any reason for the left to come out along with the low hand hold which couldn't contribute to the OP's dilemma. So..

Obviously, without making assumptions we must agree wholeheartedly with whatever the OP says, that is all we have to go on.

So is it the TS or the shooter?

I say a little of both. Not making assumptions is difficult under the circumstances.

Different TS and same shooter, probably fine.

Different shooter and same TS, probably fine.

Same TS and same shooter, fail.

CAW
 
Tuner is on point with this. IF a 1911 is fitted correctly it wouldn't matter if it were ambi, single sided, missing half it pin or not. If you look at the PROPER fitting of any left side 1911 safety you will find that the lug of the safety, that blocks the sear also keeps it in the frame at all times except for the mid point of travel.

Call SA customer service, I'm 95% sure they will fix it for no fee, as long as its their safety and it hasn't been screwed with.
 
This is good to know that anyone wanting a single sided TS can simply remove the right side and know all is well with the left side pin only going through one frame tang and half the GS. Good to know. Nothing personal, but no.

CAW
 
Well...The half pin allowing the one-side spring loaded GS causing the safety to wobble out isn't even a factor in this one, Clifford. The OP stated that the right side is loose...not missing, so the pin goes through and through. The grip safety should be stable.

He's also stated that the left side will only move out when it's in the takedown position.

It'll be interesting to see what Springfield finds...if they'll divulge it...which is doubtful. The work order will likely say: "Replaced and tested manual safety." and provide no further details.
 
The OP also mentioned that the joint was loose allowing them to separate. The right side tongue under the grip is a loose fit and does not hold the lever and pin in securely like many of the current captive by hammer pin styles. It isn't acceptable if when flipping the right side up and down any amount of times that they loosen and drift apart as this one does. It should be fixed or replaced with an ambi that stays put or a single.
 
Wow, I feel like an idiot. I read all the posts and I thought he said he left side was the one walking out. To the OP, like others have said, you can generally give the joint a little squeeze and close up the gap to tighten things up.
 
You're not an idiot Clifford, the left side is what is coming out. After they separate and with a low hand hold it works it's way out. It shouldn't of course, but any extra clearance that develops and the plunger will begin to wedge between the plate and frame. A lot of safeties are too thin where the plunger rides and can wear into a problem. SA will probably replace without question and end the problem.

CAW
 
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