1917 7.62x54
- Thread starter lowder76
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colt1911fan
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Looks like one of those American made Mosins I keep hearing about. Pics please.
tmanbuckhunter
Member
A very interesting rifle you have there.
Russia contracted 2 American companies, New England Westinghouse, and Remington armory to produce M91 long rifles for them. Both companies produced right around 1 million or so. When 1917 rolled around and the bolshevik revolution started, the United States based companies decided that they were NOT going to make rifles for communists anymore. By stopping the production of these rifles, they did not get paid for them and it sent both of the companies spiraling down into debt, and they went to the United States government for help. The US government bought these rifles at 28 dollars a piece, and this saved Remington and New England Westinghouse from going under. Many of these rifles were sold on the civilian market, but most were kept and either given to the national guard for national guard training purposes and were US property marked, or shipped off with soldiers in 1918 on the polar bear expedition to Archangel, Russia. For many years you would find 2 of these rifles in a backroom of post offices for protection, and remington produced ammo for many years. Hope this helped.
EDIT: Here is a picture of my mosins minus 1 fairly rare SIG M28. The New England Westinghouse is the first one. It has springfield armory inspectors mark and is US property marked. The bore is completely shot out so I'm fairly sure it was a national guard training rifle.
Russia contracted 2 American companies, New England Westinghouse, and Remington armory to produce M91 long rifles for them. Both companies produced right around 1 million or so. When 1917 rolled around and the bolshevik revolution started, the United States based companies decided that they were NOT going to make rifles for communists anymore. By stopping the production of these rifles, they did not get paid for them and it sent both of the companies spiraling down into debt, and they went to the United States government for help. The US government bought these rifles at 28 dollars a piece, and this saved Remington and New England Westinghouse from going under. Many of these rifles were sold on the civilian market, but most were kept and either given to the national guard for national guard training purposes and were US property marked, or shipped off with soldiers in 1918 on the polar bear expedition to Archangel, Russia. For many years you would find 2 of these rifles in a backroom of post offices for protection, and remington produced ammo for many years. Hope this helped.
EDIT: Here is a picture of my mosins minus 1 fairly rare SIG M28. The New England Westinghouse is the first one. It has springfield armory inspectors mark and is US property marked. The bore is completely shot out so I'm fairly sure it was a national guard training rifle.
HoosierQ
Member
Funny Note - May or May not be Accurate
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tmanbuckhunter
Member
lowder76 said:
Upload them to photo bucket and click on the IMG code, then paste it into a reply to this thread.
Either way, the rifle is a Remington M91 Mosin Nagant. It may have been sporterized though.
I don't think it was a matter of the American companies deciding "that they were NOT going to make rifles for communists anymore." The new Russian government wanted to pull out of the war and was essentially bankrupt. So they abrogated the Czarist contracts and refused to pay for rifles already completed.
After the war, the U.S. sold off many of those rifles as surplus and thousands were converted to .30-'06 by surplus dealers. There were alarms raised over the years about those conversions, the usual "blow up in a mushroom cloud and wipe out the county" sort of thing. In fact, I know of no actual problems, and a friend had one he shot for years with no trouble.
Jim
After the war, the U.S. sold off many of those rifles as surplus and thousands were converted to .30-'06 by surplus dealers. There were alarms raised over the years about those conversions, the usual "blow up in a mushroom cloud and wipe out the county" sort of thing. In fact, I know of no actual problems, and a friend had one he shot for years with no trouble.
Jim
http://s1226.photobucket.com/albums/ee407/lowder76/?action=view¤t=015.jpg
Its not a very good pic but you can see what i was trying to describe.
Its not a very good pic but you can see what i was trying to describe.
tmanbuckhunter
Member
Looks like bubba got to that rifle bad.
Cosmoline
Member
Damage has been done, but I've seen worse. If I were you I'd try to get rid of whatever the heck was put on the bolt receiver and swap it back to an 1891 stock. The US Mosins were often in excellent and now hard-to-find black walnut. The bolt handle could be bent back and made straight again. It wouldn't be a collector's item but it would at least be closer to what nature intended.
AlexanderA
Member
As a sidelight on the U.S.-made Moisins, an experimental Pedersen Device was planned for them. As you probably know, the Pedersen Device was an adapter to convert Springfield M1903 rifles to fire a .30 cal. pistol cartridge semiautomatically. The converted rifles were the Mark I Springfields, and some 65,000 sets of adapters and rifles were made. They were never issued (because of the end of the war) and were eventually destroyed, with only about 50 surviving. (The rifles were returned to stock as regular Springfields.) Well, there were designs for a Mark II Pedersen Device for U.S. Enfields, and a Mark III for the Moisins. These were both rifles in service with U.S. troops (in the case of the Moisins, with the North Russia "Polar Bear" expedition).
There was an original Mark I Pedersen Device and rifle for sale last weekend at the Nation's Gun Show in Virginia, for $42,000. If a Mark II or Mark III Pedersen Device could be found, it would be even more of a "Holy Grail" of collecting than a Mark I -- literally priceless.
There was an original Mark I Pedersen Device and rifle for sale last weekend at the Nation's Gun Show in Virginia, for $42,000. If a Mark II or Mark III Pedersen Device could be found, it would be even more of a "Holy Grail" of collecting than a Mark I -- literally priceless.
murdoc rose
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it has been cut but still looks like a fine "deer rifle" I'd keep it as is and go shoot it. If the bores any good it should be a fine shooter.Someone mentioned that they where commonly converted. I'm not sure how common it really was but I do know it happened so if your not sure its still in 54R I'd have someone look at it.
Thanks for everyone's input. i'm gonna keep it. I like keeping historic stuff original, but thats why I put it on here, to get some input on it. Since the damage is done i'll think of something to do with it. He did say it was dead on at 350+ yards. So it will make a good shooter if nothing else.
gyvel
Member
My Remington 91 is somewhat interesting in that it never received a serial number. Either it was kept as a factory sample of some sort or was a reject. Either way, it still had grease in the action when I got it and appears never to have been fired.
It's always interesting to see "No." and a blank space under it.
It's always interesting to see "No." and a blank space under it.
murdoc rose
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gyvel have you posted that before?
gyvel
Member
Yes, I think I posted it a while back. I put some photos up, too, if I recall. Don't remember which forum, though.
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