1959 Winchester model 70 - quality and questions

[Paradiddle]

I found a 1959 Winchester Model 70 in a caliber that suits me. It is safe queen clean - like SUPER clean. trigger feels great, stock is in great shape (no cracks, etc.) blueing is SUPER deep, etc.

I've read the "post war" M70s don't have the "quality" of the really early ones. Is that just collectors hogwash or is there somthing I should look for? the guy is asking nearly $1K so I don't want to rush in - thats a lot of money. I do realize that some Pre 64 M70s go upwards of $2K - I know they have value.

Man it shoulders nice.

Jeff

 

[Art Eatman]

I don't know that there's any particular quality difference among those early varieties. I have a 1952 Swift that's 3/4 MOA with 30-year-old handloads, FWIW.

Your rifle sounds like a 98% or better, so $1K isn't a bad deal. My 2007 edition of the Gun Digest price book says that except for chamberings other than the common '06, "Exc" is $1,150 and up.

 

[Horsemany]

Pre 64's I break into 4 groups

1.pre war 36'-46'-Excellent fit and finish, cloverleaf shaped tang, high polish or rust blued metal, fine hand checkering.

2.transition 47'-51'-oval tang, good polish and wood quality, still has front sights machined from the barrel. Some people consider these most desireable because they were drilled and tapped for scopes and retained the excellent build quality.

3.post war 52'-58'-good quality, front sights brazed on, less polish on metalwork.

4.late production 59'-64'-least desireable, plastic buttplates replaced the steel checkered widows peak buttplate, reduced checkering, poorer quality wood.

$1000 is about right for a good condition standard grade in a common caliber from 59'. They only made 600,000 guns total from 36'-64'. You could get a lot worse gun for $1000.

 

[Paradiddle]

It has a rubber "checked" type recoil pad - looks factory, but after looking I'm guessing the other owner put it on (says Winchester on it) - looks similar to an old Pachmyer recoil pad.

No front site (never had one) - rear site had a flat spot for it, but it was never installed - nothing was brazed to it. Doesn't say Supergrade on the mag plate (I looked because it had no sites) - it has a 24" barrel.

The wood is nice - it's not super fancy, but the checking is pretty sharp. Everything feels solid about it - sn is 44XXXX and it came back 1959 on my lookup. It's a 270.

 

[jim in Anchorage]

It has a rubber "checked" type recoil pad - looks factory, but after looking I'm guessing the other owner put it on (says Winchester on it) - looks similar to an old Pachmyer recoil pad.

No front site (never had one) - rear site had a flat spot for it, but it was never installed - nothing was brazed to it. Doesn't say Supergrade on the mag plate (I looked because it had no sites) - it has a 24" barrel.

The wood is nice - it's not super fancy, but the checking is pretty sharp. Everything feels solid about it - sn is 44XXXX and it came back 1959 on my lookup. It's a 270.

I don't like that part. Except for some rare target rifles and special order guns,they all had sights. Pull the barreled action and see if the date on bottom of the barrel matches the year of the receiver. $1000 would be lot for a mismatched gun.

 

[Paradiddle]

I don't like that part. Except for some rare target rifles and special order guns,they all had sights. Pull the barreled action and see if the date on bottom of the barrel matches the year of the receiver. $1000 would be lot for a mismatched gun.

Thanks - it had me a little curious as well - the barrel is proofed on the left side next to a matching proof on the receiver.

I'll pull the action and see what the date is.

Thanks,

Jeff

 

[Art Eatman]

Not particularly for this event, but I read in Fjestad that there is a fair amount of "put together" parts and pieces in some pre-WW II Model 70s, particularly for the less common chamberings.

 

[Horsemany]

Most collectors agree there's more "nice" pre64's around now than there was in 1964. People know how to fake and refinish them well.

I'm with Art I've never seen one without sights. And when you check the date on the barrel it's not uncommon for it to be a year or two earlier than the receiver's. They massed produced the barrels and used them as needed.

 

[Slamfire]

I've read the "post war" M70s don't have the "quality" of the really early ones. Is that just collectors hogwash or is there somthing I should look for? the guy is asking nearly $1K so I don't want to rush in - thats a lot of money. I do realize that some Pre 64 M70s go upwards of $2K - I know they have value.

I guess you have to define quality.

While I like the design of the pre 64 (except for its gas handling capabilities) I don’t think the words Winchester and Quality have an association.

From what I have read, and the WWII rifles I have examined, and pictures from collector books, Winchester is the “bad” example of production process control. Winchester Garand parts are horribly rough. I saw a picture of the custom shop, the book was a late 90’s book, and I saw belt driven machinery. The leather belts were looped around drive shafts in the ceiling. Incredibly old machinery.

It seems highly likely that the profits of the organization were not being put back into production and facilities. When I see a 90’s vintage custom shop outfitted with WW1 era equipment, you just have to wonder.

I have one prewar, two post war M70’s. The polish is better on the prewar. Parts are not necessarily interchangeable. Things are file to fit, or if they have been filed, you have to start with a big new part to file.

The metal on the pre 64’s was 4140 (I think), if properly heat treated that is a fine metal. The pre 64 action has a reputation for parts durability among the target shooters I know.

Still, I had the cocking piece nose break on my target pre 64. Expect to pay big dollars for a new firing pin shaft.




The Club President is a pre 64 Collector. His first, absolutely new, store bought M70 was defective. That was in the middle 50’s. I forget the exact defect, but it was a function problem.

I would not spend $1,000 for a pre 64 when you can find a nice M70 classic for a lot less, and my classic actions are very slick. But why bother with any of them now that the excellent FN actions are on the market?.

The new FN M70 action is extremely slick, they at least extended the bolt shroud to block gases coming down the receiver rail, and you should be able to get parts.

I don't like the box magazine version. The box magazine is $50.00 (if you can find one), only takes four rounds, cuts your fingers loading, and jams easily while loading.

Did I mention that pre 64 parts are very expensive, if you find them?