1968 gun control act

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On the "Why we're losing thread" someone mentioned the 1968 gun control act and how it passed with almost no opposition. I went and looked up the vote rolls for it. Not totally unopposed, but a solid minority for sure.

What's interesting is that more Democrats voted against it than Republicans. How different were times back then to have that happen?

House of Representatives, 305-108
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/90-1968/h398

Senate, 70-17
https://www.govtrack.us/congress/votes/90-1968/s558

Also, was it literally based off the 1938 Nazi law, or is that just hyperbole?
 
What's interesting is that more Democrats voted against it than Republicans. How different were times back then to have that happen?

Take a look at where the congresscritters that voted aye/nay were from. Not really all that different rural legislatures (especially from the south) vote against gun control and the urbanites vote for it. Today the republicans for many reasons, most of which are irrelevant to his forum mostly represent rural districts and Democrats tend to be favored in the urban areas.
 
"keep in mind that this was right after MLK (4/4/68) and RFK (6/6/68) were murdered."

The discussion and negotiation started after JFK was murdered in '63. It took that long to get to the GCA of '68.
 
The discussion and negotiation started after JFK was murdered in '63. It took that long to get to the GCA of '68.
As I well remember. I was referring to the actual voting that took place only a few months following the murders.

The only thing that surprised me in that environment was that so many folks were willing to vote against the legislation.
 
Good history lesson (Malcolm X was another high profile assassination of the era, along with ubiquitous war and civil-rights rioting/demonstrations --a general culture of lawlessness that worried a great many of the 'quality people'). Gun control peaked again after the Reagan/Brady shooting. As crass as it is to say it, a president counts a heck of a lot more than any number of schoolkids when it comes to galvanizing legislators into action.

Hopefully this drives home just how tenuous our continued enjoyment of freedom is here; all it takes is one or several terrible events to shock us into stupor, and tyrants are always ready to swoop in to save us from ourselves. We're just now starting to recover from the post-911 paranoia/overreaction, and beginning the long process of cleanup from the Reagan shooting (we're nowhere near touching the important parts of '68 GCA like FFL transfers or '34 NFA regulatory authority)

Long road ahead...just gotta avoid getting hit by traffic on the way to the destination.

TCB
 
I think we need to start a roll back of GCA 1968. Instead of waiting for more gun control legislation, it is time to go on the offensive. GCA 1968 was one of the worst pieces of legislation of all time, and was the somewhat of a start towards our over regulation nation. It should have had a sunset like the1994 AWB.
 
US gun makers were supportive of GCA 1968, too. It restricts imports, bans mailorder sale of surplus and generally reduces competition from European firearms.
 
How different were times back then to have that happen?

Take a look at the Southern States, very different from today. D's were 'for the farmer' and R's were 'Yankees'. Different times.
 
"keep in mind that this was right after MLK (4/4/68) and RFK (6/6/68) were murdered."

The discussion and negotiation started after JFK was murdered in '63. It took that long to get to the GCA of '68.
There is much more to the story than just JFK, MLK and RFK leading up to what is commonly known as the 1968 Gun Control Act. An as much as this may rile some people up. Even the NRA supported gun control!

Thomas Dodd of Connecticut was conducting the "Dodd Hearings" even before JFK was shot! In 1958 (Senator) John F Kennedy introduced legislation to "to control the importation of surplus military firearms". Clearly as a protectionist measure.

http://www.mississippigunnews.com/history-of-the-1968-gun-control-act/

The beginnings of the Dodd hearings can be traced to 1961 when Dodd as a part of a study " of mail order sales of firearms.[9] After two years of staff study, Senator Dodd introduced his first gun bill, Senate Bill 1975 and opened hearings to generate public interest in the gun issue.[10] The bill required mail-order purchasers of handguns to provide the seller a notarized affidavit stating they were over eighteen years of age and legally entitled to purchase the firearm and restricted the importation of surplus military firearms.[11] The bill had input from the Treasury Department and received support from both the firearms industry and the NRA.[12]"

And before MLK and RFK we find this interesting bit of information.

"Although various members of Congress introduced a variety of gun bills during the period between 1964 and 1968, the Dodd Bill became a generic description for all pending legislation, particularly among opponents of firearms control legislation."


And some more damning information which implicated the NRA as going along with these bills as well in 1965.

"The NRA and firearms [Page 81] manufacturers had supported Dodd’s original bill and the subsequent addition of interstate controls on long guns.[18] Although the official organ of the NRA, The American Rifleman, indicated otherwise, the NRA leadership displayed some willingness to compromise with Dodd as late as 1965."

If you want to read the rest, and I highly recommend that everyone here does. Go to

http://www.mississippigunnews.com/history-of-the-1968-gun-control-act/


Thomas Dodd was basically the "go to man" for gun control legislation and considered to be the architect of the 1968 Gun Control Act . Although not mentioned in the article, there was another figure who helped Dodd give his input and testified at the Dodd Hearings. That persons name was Arthur Sills, then Attorney General of New Jersey.

Arthur Sills the main character in drafting and ramrodding the 1966 FID legislation (also called the Sills Act) through both houses and eventually into law. Sills' legislation made "Firearm ID cards" mandatory in New Jersey and in my opinion that is the single reason that New Jersey ended up with some of the worst gun laws in the country and the reason for the low gun ownership in that state. Arthur Sills' Firearm ID card schemes were copied by Illinois in 1968 and Massachusetts some time later.

(Later on yet another NJ politician would also affect gun rights throughout the U.S. You might have heard of him. His name is William J. Hughes (D-N.J.). Author of the Hughes Amendment)

Anyway here was Sills, a person no one outside of NJ has ever heard of in 1966. Giving input and testimony to the Dodd hearings which directly led to the 1968 GCA. And which ended up affecting gun rights in this country for generations.

Remember that when you hear some anti mention that they have new gun control legislation. It isn't new. It was been worked on for months or in the case of the 1968 GCA...It could be traced back as far as a decade. Back to 1958 by none other than JFK.

In more recent times. Di-Fi revealed that when she unveiled her assault weapons ban in 2013. Her staff was working on the legislation for over a year.

Getting back to Thomas Dodd and the 1968 Gun Control Act. There are allegations that Dodd got some of the input for the 1968 GCA from old 1938 Nazi Gun Control Laws. Some believe the story was bogus, you be the judge. I found a copy of the letter in which Dodd asked to have a copy of the Nazi Gun Control Laws.

Here it is from jpfo

handbill-thomasdodd.jpg


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midwest.. NRA supported 68 gun control act, 94 assault weapons ban, background checks, they were the ones screaming for mental health checks in 2013 that we all know would have lead to millions of americans being denied their right to own guns based on trumped up mental health excuses.. and now they are complacent when the ATF banned 7n6

in short.. the NRA just doesnt give a damn about our rights or the second amendment.. they are more concerned with making money

want to prevent future gun legislation and push back against what is already on the books.. boycott the organization that assisted in those laws to begin with (the NRA) and pool our money elsewhere
 
midwest.. NRA supported 68 gun control act, 94 assault weapons ban, background checks, they were the ones screaming for mental health checks in 2013 that we all know would have lead to millions of americans being denied their right to own guns based on trumped up mental health excuses.. and now they are complacent when the ATF banned 7n6

in short.. the NRA just doesnt give a damn about our rights or the second amendment.. they are more concerned with making money

want to prevent future gun legislation and push back against what is already on the books.. boycott the organization that assisted in those laws to begin with (the NRA) and pool our money elsewhere
I don't want to come across as NRA bashing. They have done a lot of good and still remains as our largest voice. But that wasn't always the case, and it is important that people understand the history on "how we got here". The NRA of the 1960's is different than the NRA of 2014.

If people wish to do further reading on the NRA, gun rights, and more of the history leading to the 68 GCA. Do check out this interesting article. I have referenced it several times over the last year or two.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine...cret-history-of-guns/308608/?single_page=true

"In the 1960s, the NRA once again supported the push for new federal gun laws. After the assassination of President John F. Kennedy in 1963 by Lee Harvey Oswald, who had bought his gun through a mail-order ad in the NRA’s American Rifleman magazine, Franklin Orth, then the NRA’s executive vice president, testified in favor of banning mail-order rifle sales. “We do not think that any sane American, who calls himself an American, can object to placing into this bill the instrument which killed the president of the United States.”


Regarding my earlier comment that Di-Fi was working on her 'assault weapons ban" for a year before Sandy Hook. Can be found here.

http://www.nraila.org/legislation/f...ein-goes-for-broke-with-new-gun-ban-bill.aspx

"On Dec. 17th, Feinstein said, “I have been working with my staff for over a year on this legislation”


In 1977 the direction of the NRA changed in the infamous coup which can also be read at http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2011/09/the-secret-history-of-guns

The NRA has been more aggressive in defending our rights in recent years. Sure there are criticisms that they have been complacent as such. There is always room for improvement.

My view of it all is that the concealed carry movement is a major factor in helping to keep our gun rights alive. Because of the concealed carry movement and subsequent laws that allow for carry throughout in most states. We have more and more people interested in firearms than before. And not just 40+ yr old males getting carry permits, but people of both sexes and of all ages.

Education in gun rights and mentoring others by taking potential new gun owners to a range and letting them shoot for the first time are some of the best methods to win more people to our side.

We have to continue to educate people what the second amendment is really about and that it has nothing to do with the "right to hunt" and for "sport shooting". We must keep up the fight for our rights.

We need to get more politically involved. The real answer is that we need to SUPPORT and TAKE INTEREST in Pro2A candidates in states that we don't even live in, like CT, NY, MD, NJ and other anti-states. Perhaps if we did that 20 or 30 years ago we might not have had the Lautenberg Amendment, Hughes Amendment, and Gun Free School Zone laws that we have today.

What we do to protect and enhance our gun rights today have a direct bearing on our future generation. We must keep up the fight for our rights. We must educate and get more politically involved.

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are you frickin serious midwest?.. you think the NRA gives a damn about your rights?.. they were the ones pushing for mental health restrictions on firearm purchases.. do you know how this would work? first of all it would be unenforceable without a centralized database of your health and mental health records free for the government to search as they please.. second of all they would be the ones to dictate who would be restricted and for what... if you taken a single pill for anxiety, stress, depression 10 years ago?.. banned for life

on another note our government wants all veterans to be classified as having mental health problems.. either you're messed up about what went on during your service and have PTSD.. or you enjoyed it and are psychotic.. so all veterans.. banned from owning guns

and the NRA has been pushing for these mental health restrictions since at least sandy hook.. im not afraid to come off as NRA-bashing because their actions of late, and of the past deserve some bashing from any intelligent gun owner
 
I think we need to start a roll back of GCA 1968. Instead of waiting for more gun control legislation, it is time to go on the offensive. GCA 1968 was one of the worst pieces of legislation of all time, and was the somewhat of a start towards our over regulation nation. It should have had a sunset like the1994 AWB.
We've rolled back some of the most horrendous parts of it. The restrictions on handgun ammo were way over the top. We would not have such relatively cheap ammo today if those restrictions were not rolled back in 1986.

The Type 3 FFL is also a good example of mitigating the GCA.
 
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they were the ones pushing for mental health restrictions on firearm purchases.
Let's see some sourced quotes so we know exactly what the NRA has come out supporting since Sandy Hook.

I love to beat up on the 800-lb gorilla protecting our rights just as much as the next guy, but lets be precise.
 
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...s-database-thirty-eight-states-have-that-now/

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/4-quotes-from-nra-s-wayne-lapierre-after-navy-yard-shooting-1.1864374

NRA isnt protecting our rights though, they protect the corporate interests when it comes to firearm legislation.. theyve made concessions on our second amendment rights they had no business nor authority to make and to this date have never challenged things like the 34, 68 (which they helped create) and 86 bans, and they were a supporter of the background checks that are now being used as both a backdoor registry and against other decent, law abiding americans as more and more misdemeanors are being added to the list, including non violent ones while they seek the power to restrict people based on the mental health issues they decide warrant a disqualification

the problem is people are putting blind faith into this for-profit (they say non-profit, but just take a look at lapierres paycheck for example).. and the money and faith they dump into this organization, expecting them to defend their rights they could be pooling into sources that really would.. which in the end only helps to harm the gun community... we need to put our money and our resources into groups that have the balls to fight the legislation already on the books, to challenge import bans, 922, 68, 34, and 86 bans as well as the background checks (baby steps though of course).. and the NRA just has no interest in doing any of that
 
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Ok, so he said that if you've been involuntarily committed and/or adjudicated mentally defective, that should flag the NCIS check. That's already the law, so I don't see a huge problem there.

Those are pretty serious psych cases, not "my neighbor said I'm strange and now I can't buy a gun," worries.
 
well it wouldnt be up to the NRA to decide which cases are to be flagged as serious enough to deny people their second amendment rights.. the first step is to allow the government to pass such restrictions, once their foot is in the door the government will decide any damn thing they want to flag you and take away your rights, its already been done a couple times in new york state to ban people from owning guns and confiscate all their stuff just for having a mild case of depression years ago.. no involuntary commitment nor adjudication required

the NRA, whether theyre doing it knowingly or not is aiding in making that a reality and you know once the government has the power they will most definitely abuse it
 
Midwest said:
Getting back to Thomas Dodd and the 1968 Gun Control Act. There are allegations that Dodd got some of the input for the 1968 GCA from old 1938 Nazi Gun Control Laws. Some believe the story was bogus, you be the judge. I found a copy of the letter in which Dodd asked to have a copy of the Nazi Gun Control Laws.

According the the letter, the request for the text of the Nazi gun laws was made on July 2nd, 1968.

Didn't you also say that the law was written before '68?
 
Well, that first step is already present. I think that's what he's saying. BY LAW if someone is adjudicated mentally defective, or involuntarily committed, they've done or attempted something QUITE bad and are being locked up for the safety of themselves and/or others. This isn't something you get from a little depression or PTSD or taxing a pill for anxiety. This is appearing before a judge and being sent to a lockdown mental facility. As in, it's either there or prison.

So yeah, that makes you a prohibited person. And Wayne is saying that this is SUPPOSED to trigger the NCIS to deny a gun sale. Another chorus of the "enforce the laws we have, don't pass more!" song.

Extrapolating THAT to say the NRA is in favor of declaring all mental health issues to earn a prohibited status is incorrect. Do a bit more research, back down your emotion and ire just a tad and make sure you know EXACTLY what you are saying is true. That will help you come across as realistically concerned, rather than unreasonably vitriolic.

Yes, mental health issues and gun rights ride a really worrisome edge, either way. This is a very important issue. But ranting that the NRA wants to expand the prohibited class via. mental health checks just makes you look unrealistic and out of touch.
 
According the the letter, the request for the text of the Nazi gun laws was made on July 2nd, 1968.

Didn't you also say that the law was written before '68?
Parts of the law were drafted along the way, and there were hearings from 1963 through 1968 regarding gun control or better known as the "Dodd Hearings". 1961 Dodd started to do a study on mail order firearms for two years till 1963 according to the article.

And...other gun control articles that I have run across over the years reference Dodd and the 1938 Nazi gun control laws.

And there is a letter from July 12 1968 from Lewis Coffin acknowledging that Dodd asked on July 2 1968 for a translation of the laws.
The letter was reprinted by www.JPFO.org

But I thought I mentioned all that in my last post.

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Honestly, I cringe a little bit inside every single time our guys get on TV and say, "Enforce the laws we have..." because the REAL message should be "REPEAL the laws we have."

But that doesn't play so well with the earth people.
 
According the the letter, the request for the text of the Nazi gun laws was made on July 2nd, 1968.

Didn't you also say that the law was written before '68?
Here is some more research for you to read. Which I think you will find the following extremely interesting regarding Thomas Dodd and the Nazi Gun Laws.



http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/MediaPages/ArticleDetail.aspx?mediaid=162

"As part of the US prosecuting group, (Of The Nuremberg Trials) Thomas J Dodd stood as assistant to Justice Jackson. Thomas Dodd is a key figure here, because 22 years later, he would become the author and sponsor of GCA68 and several other gun control bills in the mid 1960s.

Even though the subject of German firearms laws never surfaced directly in the trials, it is quite possible and even probable that Thomas Dodd studied German gun control laws while in Germany and perhaps even took copies of some of them home after the trials. While it cannot be absolutely determined that he took home copies, it is uncontestable that he indeed had a copy in his possession by 1968.


A letter from the Library of Congress has been found, dated July, 1968, where a librarian returned to Senator Dodd the 1938 German law translated into English as he had requested of them, along with the Xerox copy he furnished for the translation. In this matter, it raises the intriguing question of why he furnished a copy of the 1938 law to the Library since they had their own copy to use.

Some speculate that Senator Dodd spoke German as was apparent during the trials when he cross-examined witnesses. While the President of the hearings repeatedly asked some witnesses to slow down so the interpreter could keep up, Senator Dodd never made the same request. So, it would not be a stretch to assume that he did follow the German language. And you might ask, if he could converse in German, why the translation to start with? The answer, it appears, was to "launder" GWA38 through the Library of Congress to fend off any criticism that the legislation closely resembled GWA38."


So based on the above. Dodd did a formal request of a translation of the German Gun Laws of 1968 in order to make it look like he was asking for input after most (if not all) of the 1968 GCA was already written up.

Thomas Dodd (the architect of the 1968 Gun Control Act) was in Nuremberg Germany as a part of the U.S. prosecution team.

http://today.uconn.edu/blog/2014/02/historic-nuremberg-papers-of-sen-thomas-dodd-go-digital/

"Papers of Sen. Thomas J. Dodd, for whom UConn’s Dodd Research Center is named. The former Special Assistant to the U.S. Attorney General supervised the day-to-day prosecution team of the United States during the International Military Tribunals in 1945-46, which prosecuted the leadership of Nazi Germany for war crimes during World War II. "

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Dodd wanted to ban all handguns and register all long guns. The political quid pro quo of the NRA was that they'd go along with banning mail order if Dodd would back off on bans and registration (registration had little support, overall).

So, no mail order, but no ban on handguns.
 
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