Standing Wolf
Member in memoriam
Waste my vote by casting it in favor of Republicrats and Democans? Not bluiddy likely!
What A Democrat Must Do To Prove He is Pro-Gun
- Thread starter mordechaianiliewicz
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GoRon
Member
You would rather "waste" your vote voting for the Libertarians! 
larry starling
Member
Quit voting for the dem's...and wake up and realize the party of your father isnt the same party anymore. It's now the party for gays and wacko fringe groups.....
CAnnoneer
Member
The reality is that it has become impossible for a dissenter to rise through the ranks while the leadership has greatly consolidated their hold in both parties. Under such circumstances, any new faces would only be political clones of the old faces. Whence the impossibility of a successful pro-gun Democrat or a successful conservative republican or even a simple pragmatic nationalist within the two "major" parties.
If the vicious circle of manipulation and illusions is to be broken, we need more parties to have a real shot. That is why I will vote third party for the foreseeable future. As far as such go, I agree with most of Libertarian ideas, but they are just abysmal on national security, immigration, and border control, while the Conservatives annoy me with their anti-abortion position. Still, it will probably be Conservative.
And no, my vote is not wasted. Evil is evil and there are other options.
If the vicious circle of manipulation and illusions is to be broken, we need more parties to have a real shot. That is why I will vote third party for the foreseeable future. As far as such go, I agree with most of Libertarian ideas, but they are just abysmal on national security, immigration, and border control, while the Conservatives annoy me with their anti-abortion position. Still, it will probably be Conservative.
And no, my vote is not wasted. Evil is evil and there are other options.
Why give Republican candidates a pass? Why not title this "What a candidate must do to prove he is pro-gun?"
real_name
member
Hmm, you mean like Jeff Gannon and the End Timers?
Monkeyleg
Member.
mordechaianiliewicz, I'm not a single-issue voter, either.
But the 2nd Amendment is my first test. If a candidate waffles on gun issues, then that candidate is lying to me. The language of the 2nd Amendment is not vague, and it's not open to interpretation, or arguments about a "living, breathing" constitution.
If that candidate will lie to me about gun rights, then I know with near certainty that he/she will lie to me about other issues.
But the 2nd Amendment is my first test. If a candidate waffles on gun issues, then that candidate is lying to me. The language of the 2nd Amendment is not vague, and it's not open to interpretation, or arguments about a "living, breathing" constitution.
If that candidate will lie to me about gun rights, then I know with near certainty that he/she will lie to me about other issues.
GoRon
Member
Good point, we have a RINO gubernatorial candidate going up against our Democrat governor this fall. She has said some positive things (compared to Blago(D) calling for an assault weapon ban) but will she be pro gun?
Will she be able to overcome the Chicago Democrats that run the state and be pro gun or will she compromise. Nobody knows.
This much is known, she pays lip service to the 2nd amendment and wouldn't initiate or call for bad legislation. Blago(D) sticks anti gun messages into all his speeches and would run from Chicago down to Springfield to sign any anti gun legislation.
Deanimator
Member
Have his DNC support pulled. If he's REALLY pro-gun, he'll instantly become a pariah within the party when that becomes known.
Deanimator
Member
You see people say this, but you just have to ask the right questions to prove they don't really mean it.
If a guy is the PERFECT candidate... but he's a Holocaust denier, you won't see many Jews (or me) voting for him.
If he's in favor of anti-sodomy laws, how many gays are going to vote for him?
If he's anti-abortion, how many feminists are going to vote for him, no matter what else he supports?
If you're anti-gun, you've willingly passed on my vote. I take gun rights seriously. I'm not giving up any guns, to anyone. The alternative is probably serious violence. I don't want it to get to that point.
xd9fan
Member
I think this a part of the problem.....trusting a politician to protect your rights....
I think this is the reason I left the GOP. We the People have to make more rules and laws to be placed on the politicians (because they represent the "state" more than they represent us).
Politicians are politicians and yet we the people get pissed where they are political!! Our Rights should not be asked to be protected by these clowns.
We need to demand that more of the in's and out's of the Govt are done by national Referendum. If Congress wants a pay raise??? demend it to a Referendum. If they realized they will never get a pay increase till we are happy with their behavior, so be it.
To me Anything done with "the people's money" should be controled and limited by referendum. On the State and National level. The pork crap projects would stop or slow down. And if the Local people need something (like light rail or other crap projects like that......THEY can pay for it. None of this "well if we dont spend the Federal dollars we'll lose it so lets think of a project")
Bottom line dont be so hung up on the politician........one should really never trust them. I'm more for placing limits on them (more than they place on us) to protect them from themselves.
I think this is the reason I left the GOP. We the People have to make more rules and laws to be placed on the politicians (because they represent the "state" more than they represent us).
Politicians are politicians and yet we the people get pissed where they are political!! Our Rights should not be asked to be protected by these clowns.
We need to demand that more of the in's and out's of the Govt are done by national Referendum. If Congress wants a pay raise??? demend it to a Referendum. If they realized they will never get a pay increase till we are happy with their behavior, so be it.
To me Anything done with "the people's money" should be controled and limited by referendum. On the State and National level. The pork crap projects would stop or slow down. And if the Local people need something (like light rail or other crap projects like that......THEY can pay for it. None of this "well if we dont spend the Federal dollars we'll lose it so lets think of a project")
Bottom line dont be so hung up on the politician........one should really never trust them. I'm more for placing limits on them (more than they place on us) to protect them from themselves.
You may have not seen this...
...but the proportion of US voters that consider themselves "independent" - that is, not either Republican or Democrat - is at an all time high.
http://kevinzeese.com/content/view/126/47/
"A Gallup Poll this week found that the largest group of U.S. voters consider themselves independent of the two parties – 38% consider themselves independent, while 33% consider themselves Democrats and 29% consider themselves Republicans. In Maryland the fastest growing group of voters are registering independent of the two parties."
Do you realize what this means? If people actually voted their conscience instead of going with "who they think will win", independents are a plurality of voters!
...but the proportion of US voters that consider themselves "independent" - that is, not either Republican or Democrat - is at an all time high.
http://kevinzeese.com/content/view/126/47/
"A Gallup Poll this week found that the largest group of U.S. voters consider themselves independent of the two parties – 38% consider themselves independent, while 33% consider themselves Democrats and 29% consider themselves Republicans. In Maryland the fastest growing group of voters are registering independent of the two parties."
Do you realize what this means? If people actually voted their conscience instead of going with "who they think will win", independents are a plurality of voters!
GoRon
Member
What makes you think that all the independents agree with each other?
They are dissatisfied R's and D's with some libertarians and confused wacko's thrown in for good measure.
Face it, if you vote third party to punish the Republicans for abandoning the principles that got them elected more Democrats are going to be elected.
If getting screwed by the Democrats is preferable to the way the Republicans screw us then by all means vote third party.
Don't try to BS me into thinking that voting third party is nothing more than a vote FOR the Democrats. The end result is the end result regardless of your good intentions. I know it sucks but that is the reality of the situation.
----------quote---------
Good point, we have a RINO gubernatorial candidate going up against our Democrat governor this fall. She has said some positive things (compared to Blago(D) calling for an assault weapon ban) but will she be pro gun?
Will she be able to overcome the Chicago Democrats that run the state and be pro gun or will she compromise.
-------------------------
Sometimes you have to judge them by "local standards." Blago and his ilk are some of the worst anti-gun politicians in the country. Illinois (because it is totally dominated by Chicago) is one of the worst anti-gun states in the U.S. In that context, electing a candidate who is 5 out of 10 on the anti-gun politics scale would be considered a victory given what usually happens in IL. Electing the same candidate in IN would be a major disappointment.
Others will suggest ideological purity and voting for a fringe candidate with no chance of victory in IL. However, I don't think that is ultimately helpful. If what's-her-name is running on a platform that's considerably less anti-gun than the general climate in IL, then she is taking some risk of an anti-gun backlash from the Chicagoites. If you reward a candidate like that with your vote, you are sending the message that it is worthwhile as a politician to go as far to the pro-gun side as you can.
If, on the other hand, a candidate pushes the limits of electability in IL by leaning towards the pro- side, and all the gun owners desert her and she loses, then that sends a different message to IL Republicans. That sends the message "it isn't worth it to try and court the gun owner vote - they won't support you unless you adopt a totally unelectable position. The best strategy for us to follow is to try to out-anti the Democrats."
Good point, we have a RINO gubernatorial candidate going up against our Democrat governor this fall. She has said some positive things (compared to Blago(D) calling for an assault weapon ban) but will she be pro gun?
Will she be able to overcome the Chicago Democrats that run the state and be pro gun or will she compromise.
-------------------------
Sometimes you have to judge them by "local standards." Blago and his ilk are some of the worst anti-gun politicians in the country. Illinois (because it is totally dominated by Chicago) is one of the worst anti-gun states in the U.S. In that context, electing a candidate who is 5 out of 10 on the anti-gun politics scale would be considered a victory given what usually happens in IL. Electing the same candidate in IN would be a major disappointment.
Others will suggest ideological purity and voting for a fringe candidate with no chance of victory in IL. However, I don't think that is ultimately helpful. If what's-her-name is running on a platform that's considerably less anti-gun than the general climate in IL, then she is taking some risk of an anti-gun backlash from the Chicagoites. If you reward a candidate like that with your vote, you are sending the message that it is worthwhile as a politician to go as far to the pro-gun side as you can.
If, on the other hand, a candidate pushes the limits of electability in IL by leaning towards the pro- side, and all the gun owners desert her and she loses, then that sends a different message to IL Republicans. That sends the message "it isn't worth it to try and court the gun owner vote - they won't support you unless you adopt a totally unelectable position. The best strategy for us to follow is to try to out-anti the Democrats."
GoRon
Member
antsi
As far as this state is concerned you are right. I really thought I was going to draw a line in the sand this time. The pathetic Republicans in this state seem to be TRYING to alienate me.
At first there was no way I was going to vote for Topinka. But as she gets slammed for opposing an assault weapon ban and seeing the rabid anti gun stance of or Democratic governor I am getting wobbly.
I'll probably vote for her but I am not happy about it, someone calling for CCW is more my style.
As far as this state is concerned you are right. I really thought I was going to draw a line in the sand this time. The pathetic Republicans in this state seem to be TRYING to alienate me.
At first there was no way I was going to vote for Topinka. But as she gets slammed for opposing an assault weapon ban and seeing the rabid anti gun stance of or Democratic governor I am getting wobbly.
I'll probably vote for her but I am not happy about it, someone calling for CCW is more my style.
I see a lot here about not being a "single issue voter". We are at such a late stage in the game as far as our Republic is concerned, that the 2nd is the only issue I research before going to the polls. Without the 2nd the Bill o' Rights is meaningless. Almost any other issue can be rectified thru voting the right people into office later on. Once your guns are gone, you will NEVER get them back. A well armed populace is hard to oppress. There are more people every day that dissagree with the very idea of being able to defend yourself. Personally I think it is the most basic right of any living organism. But what do I know I am just an ignorant hick from Ga.
Don't Tread On Me
Member
For a Democrat to prove to be pro-gun, they must always vote to defeat anti-gun bills, and always vote in favor of pro-gun bills.
That's it in a nutshell.
That's it in a nutshell.
xd9fan
Member
Have a crystal clear record of "walking the walk"
yeah I'll hold my breath..........
yeah I'll hold my breath..........
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