1987 S&W model 36, +P??

[bdb benzino]

The title pretty much says it all, I just picked up a sweet no dash model 36 for the wifey and was wondering about +P. I'm sure it can handle a few here and there, but would it be ok to run a lot? I know the steel K frames can run them all the time, but was not sure about the steel J frames.
Thanks for any input or info!

Here she is!



What do you guys think? I picked this up for less than $300, and added my Crimson Trace grips to make it even better for my lady.

 

[Old Fuff]

The term "Plus-P" can cover a lot of territory. Some of it is weak sister, and some of it really has hair on its chest. Older steel-frame J-frames can digest most Plus-P ammunition, but over time develop cylinder end-shake (back & forth movement of the cylinder, as opposed to rotational movement).

You may also find that your wife finds the recoil to be unpleasant, although the excellent CT grips well help.

For close-up work (10 yards and under) I still prefer the old .38 Special 148-grain midrange full-wadcutter load. Easy recovery from recoil, and it cuts a mean hole. Don't have to worry about expansion either.

PS: I think you got a great buy!

 

[BossHogg]

Nice pick up on that 36. +P hasn't bothered my 36 but I don't run a lot through it. I like standard loads for my practice and range time. Some of the old 38 spl were as hot as some of the +P today. I do like 158 gr bullets with all my 38's as well as 148 gr wadcutters.

 

[SaxonPig]

ANY 38 Special is OK with "+P" as offered by the mainstream ammo makers since this ammo is loaded well below maximum allowable chamber pressures. Factory +P is typically a 125 at 925 FPS. This is a very mild load running at 16,500 PSI. It is one of the great myths of modern times that +P is in any way a hot load. Nothing but marketing hype and misinformation amongst the uninformed.

5,000 rounds of +P will nicely break in a Model 36.

 

[pendennis]

Here's a link to a thread in which I posted the +P warning message from Smith & Wesson:

http://http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=614416

 

[rcmodel]

The SAAMI .38 Spl +P rating system came about in 1974.
At that time standard pressure was lowered, +P was increased very slightly over what used to be standard pressure, and Hi-Speed ammo was dropped from production.

Prior to 1974:
The Standard pressure 158 LRN grain factory load was rated at 855 FPS.
The Hi-Speed load was rated at 1,090 FPS.

Under todays SAAMI standard, the same 158 grain load is rated at 755 FPS.
The +P is rated at 890 FPS.

As you can see, +P is no more likely to damage a modern gun then standard ammo was likely to damage it in 1970, or 1950, or 1930.

And it is way less likely to damage it then those old .38 Spl Hi-Speed loads that were much closer to todays .357 Mag then todays .38 Spl, either standard, or +P.

rc

 

[Drail]

I will never understand why everyone today seems to think they "must" run +P ammo through a nice S&W M 36 (or any other snub). Do they really think it's going to give them some kind of big advantage over standard .38 Spl. ammunition? It's a small frame .38 Spl. If you need a .357 Mag. buy one.

 

[rcmodel]

Because about all you can buy in premium .38 Special SD ammo is +P.

Again, it is no closer to .357 than standard pressure .38 Special was when most of those old Chiefs Specials were made.

rc

 

[roaddog28]

I have a model 36 no dash. I have used +P 38 specials and have not had a problem. Too me the only real +P round a person can buy is the Buffalo Bore LSWCHP 158gr +P 38. This is the hottest round I know of sold. I have used it but the recoil is stiff in a little J frame model 36. With the Buffalo Bore I would limit my round count.
Good luck,
roaddog28

 

[bdb benzino]

I will never understand why everyone today seems to think they "must" run +P ammo through a nice S&W M 36 (or any other snub). Do they really think it's going to give them some kind of big advantage over standard .38 Spl. ammunition? It's a small frame .38 Spl. If you need a .357 Mag. buy one.

Dang! Tell us how you really feel!
I do not feel I "must" run +P, and in fact I just asked if it could take it. Fuff is right, the only one shooting +P in this gun will be me and the Wife will shoot standard Hornady Critical Defense along with some 148gr wad cutters. RCmodel also has a point, that almost any good self defense load is +P already.

 

[Gary A]

I love reading about this stuff and am humbled by the knowledge and experience many of you exhibit. That said I must quibble a bit with both rcmodel and SaxonPig for discussing pressure in terms of feet per second instead of pounds per square inch. While clearly higher pressure results in more speed, they are not directly comparable units so making that argument really tells us very little. Likewise, SaxonPig, your views (some would say biases) on this are well known, but simply saying that a typical plus p offering is loaded to only 16,500 psi without a single source of documentation except your statement that it is so is, frankly, not helpful to those of us not as experienced or knowledgeable who, nevertheless are trying expand our own knowledge. For example, and I've said this before, Speer's technical manual clearly states the maximum average pressure of their 135 grain plus P .38 Special is 21,500 psi, though someone from Speer later told me in an email that 21,500 psi is a "probable lot mean" and MAP should be 20,000 psi. Hardly sounds like 16,500 psi there unless Speer would lie and exaggerate their pressure for some reason.

 

[Gary A]

The question then becomes, should I believe a manufacturer's publication, or the repeated but unverified statements of people on an Internet forum? I would love to believe people on this forum but need more evidence than "it is true and correct because I say it is". No offense to anyone is intended, seriously but in this case the words of Reagan apply: "trust, but verify".

 

[DrLaw]

I've said this before, but the .38 Special can be loaded as follows:

200 grain round nose lead bullet, over 3.8 grains of Unique. The bullet is stable in flight, but tumbles when it hits something. It is like getting hit with a slower moving basketball vs. a fast baseball. Both will knock you down, but the bigger bullet does it better.

This load comes from a Gun Digest article.

200 grain bullets can be found, or molded. The nice thing is that the loads are mild and not whiz-bangs that hurt your hand after a few shots.

After all, what use is the gun if you do not shoot it with the rounds you intend to use in it?

The Doc is out now.

 

[Drail]

Have always big a big fan of slow heavy bullets. It's like a Kenworth rolling across a parking lot. It will mess stuff up.