1'st time ever 30-30 load, Herter's 30 cal semi-jacket, any help?

Status
Not open for further replies.

ACES&8S

Member
Joined
Oct 21, 2017
Messages
1,133
Location
Virginia
I have loaded for 20+ years but never a 30-30 & never any tubular fed except the Hornady
45/70 300 grain H/P which is safe & easy but these have be stumped.
Look at the pic, they are semi jacketed flap point but the front ever so slightly -dips- into
the primer pocket which worries me & makes me hesitate to try this. That's a gas check
not a real jacket.
I got these years ago with a lot I bought from an out of business deal. Then last year I gave
them to my son because he liked the -old- looking box. Now he reloads but he wants me to
try to load some for him, maybe for the same reason. Just to get me to find out if they are safe
for tubular 30-30.
Anyone here have any experience with these bullets or advice.
Herters 308 dia.jpg
 
They will be fine.
A lot of soft point round nose bullets will fit into the empty primer pocket look at most factory rounds.
Stay away from spitzer points.
 
I have loaded a different brand of semi jacketed bullet in my 357 ammo. The abbreviated jacket will keep the bullet spinning without stripping the bullet at rifle velocities and will be accurate. A lot better than a gas checked bullet, but still an inexpensive one from the 1960's. I don't see the weight but the crimp will be in the lead portion and will work OK if you crimp in a separate operation. The Lee FCD will be the best option to crimp them IMO. They will work as any 30-30 bullet will of the same weight but expansion might not be as good as a current offering.
 
Yes I have the load for it. Looks like pretty much like a plinking round.
Just had never seen such a bullet before, there are probably other old boxes of bullets in that
stuff I got back years ago.
Thanks for the info so far.
 
Yes I have the load for it. Looks like pretty much like a plinking round.
Just had never seen such a bullet before, there are probably other old boxes of bullets in that
stuff I got back years ago.
Thanks for the info so far.

Well look at what you got. You would be surprised what a old 1930,40,50,s box of odd bullets or ammo will bring these days. Might say $3.99 on the box and worth $100. Never know unless you look.
 
Last edited:
I have shot Speer half jacket bullets. They are only 110gr and a round nose.
You have a flat nose, so they are even safer.
I agree with people that say check the value of them before shooting them.
Berry's sells 250 30-30 bullets for 30ish dollars depending on current sales.
 
I am in the category of not firing the things, because they are so unusual. They should be safe in a tubular magazine as the flat point will not touch the primer of the cartridge in front.

I have been testing 170 Hornady's, and they shoot well in my Marlin. I do recommend you attempt to figure out where the throat is in your rifle. I finally figured out a way to do this. The basic maximum OAL is 2.55" and that is based on the distance of the ejector from the breech face. Just recently I figured out a way to test OAL in my rifle. I found a range pickup up 30-30 with a expanded case neck, but a case neck tight enough to hold the bullet. I seated a 170 grain bullet out, dropped the round in the chamber, and closed the bolt hard. Experiment with this without a bullet, to see if you can extract the case without a cleaning rod, the fit might be too tight. Then, I jacked the bolt open 3/8", lifted the extractor up and over the rim, pulled the bolt back all the way. Then I lifted the case out, holding it by the rim with medical forceps. What I found was the throat. Marlin New Haven in their infinite wisdom reamed the chamber such that for a bullet to be in the lands, it has to be 2.700" inches long!. This explains a lot of things, particularly the awful experiences I have had with cast bullets in this rifle. Considering I cannot eject a round longer than 2.550" plus something, there is no way I can ever load the thing with the bullets just off the lands. My bullets have to jump about a quarter of an inch before they engage rifling!. It is a wonder the thing shoots as well as it does.

This also explains why every one of my loads is way over book maximum. I have a huge chamber.

Anyway, as a suggestion, try N135 and IMR 3031. Recently tested the new IMR 3031 and the powder is now a short cut powder. Not the Lincoln logs of yore. Something that was particularly good with both of these powders is that they shot round groups even as the charges increased. This is not a given, one of these days I will show some other powders that strung bullets up and down. After shooting enough ten/15 round groups with this rifle, I am convinced that low extreme spreads are critical. This mechanism is about as stiff as a trampoline. It is extremely sensitive to velocity changes. Notice, just how much MOA I am having to add, or take off, to get the rifle to print in the middle, with small changes in powder charges. I had to add 2MOA down to keep the group in the center with one grain increase. That was not unusual or extraordinary.

My goal is 2150 fps with a 170 grain bullet. My rifle shoots best at, or a little below this velocity. At velocities with extremes in the 2200 fps, I get blown groups. This rifle shoots best at factory velocities.

x4uCnzg.jpg

42Bz34f.jpg

WA1k9fv.jpg
EtHoz2t.jpg
jTThPEq.jpg


After shooting over 500 rounds on paper, through my rifle, I am very skeptical of those who claim half MOA in a Marlin lever action. A recent National Magazine evaluation of the Winchester M1894 was with three round groups, at 50 yards! With a ten shot group, you can create 120 combinations of three shot groups, all of which are totally meaningless as the maximum group size is the maximum group size of the ten shot group, not some average of a 120 three shot groups. Gunwriters do this all the time, give an average of three, three shot groups, which is of course, smaller than the maximum group size of a nine shot group. Some of them just shoot three rounds and claim that as the inherent accuracy of the rifle and ammunition, which of course, three shots are not enough to claim any inherent accuracy. Forty shot groups are a much better way of evaluating inherent accuracy as you are more likely to see 1:100 events. But, three shot groups have become the "Gold Standard" of the shooting community, because the leaders of the shooting community, the In Print writers, use them almost to exclusivity. Their primary reason is economic, they are given a flat fee, around $400, and they don't want to spend too much time and ammunition, as that cuts into their profit. Secondarily, too many shots might reveal the firearm is a turkey. They are not interested in determining inherent accuracy, just getting something out that will have readers run screaming to the local gun store to buy, buy, buy. Amazing that readers will buy a thousand dollar firearm based on a test where the in print evaluator may have fired 12 to 15 rounds total, and at a distance where the choice between a firearm and an atatl would more of a preference.

Jcb9CAR.jpg

Why not hunt the buffalo with a spear?

pgZp6Vt.jpg

4rgeqnp.jpg
 
Last edited:
I think Hornady made some 100 grain half jackets round lead nose. I loved them in the 30-30. very accurate and fast.

think they discontinued them tho, very sad I loved them.
 
I am in the category of not firing the things, because they are so unusual. They should be safe in a tubular magazine as the flat point will not touch the primer of the cartridge in front.

I have been testing 170 Hornady's, and they shoot well in my Marlin. I do recommend you attempt to figure out where the throat is in your rifle. I finally figured out a way to do this. The basic maximum OAL is 2.55" and that is based on the distance of the ejector from the breech face. Just recently I figured out a way to test OAL in my rifle. I found a range pickup up 30-30 with a expanded case neck, but a case neck tight enough to hold the bullet. I seated a 170 grain bullet out, dropped the round in the chamber, and closed the bolt hard. Experiment with this without a bullet, to see if you can extract the case without a cleaning rod, the fit might be too tight. Then, I jacked the bolt open 3/8", lifted the extractor up and over the rim, pulled the bolt back all the way. Then I lifted the case out, holding it by the rim with medical forceps. What I found was the throat. Marlin New Haven in their infinite wisdom reamed the chamber such that for a bullet to be in the lands, it has to be 2.700" inches long!. This explains a lot of things, particularly the awful experiences I have had with cast bullets in this rifle. Considering I cannot eject a round longer than 2.550" plus something, there is no way I can ever load the thing with the bullets just off the lands. My bullets have to jump about a quarter of an inch before they engage rifling!. It is a wonder the thing shoots as well as it does.

This also explains why every one of my loads is way over book maximum. I have a huge chamber.

Anyway, as a suggestion, try N135 and IMR 3031. Recently tested the new IMR 3031 and the powder is now a short cut powder. Not the Lincoln logs of yore. Something that was particularly good with both of these powders is that they shot round groups even as the charges increased. This is not a given, one of these days I will show some other powders that strung bullets up and down. After shooting enough ten/15 round groups with this rifle, I am convinced that low extreme spreads are critical. This mechanism is about as stiff as a trampoline. It is extremely sensitive to velocity changes. Notice, just how much MOA I am having to add, or take off, to get the rifle to print in the middle, with small changes in powder charges. I had to add 2MOA down to keep the group in the center with one grain increase. That was not unusual or extraordinary.

My goal is 2150 fps with a 170 grain bullet. My rifle shoots best at, or a little below this velocity. At velocities with extremes in the 2200 fps, I get blown groups. This rifle shoots best at factory velocities.

View attachment 817523

View attachment 817524

View attachment 817525
View attachment 817526
View attachment 817527


After shooting over 500 rounds on paper, through my rifle, I am very skeptical of those who claim half MOA in a Marlin lever action. A recent National Magazine evaluation of the Winchester M1894 was with three round groups, at 50 yards! With a ten shot group, you can create 120 combinations of three shot groups, all of which are totally meaningless as the maximum group size is the maximum group size of the ten shot group, not some average of a 120 three shot groups. Gunwriters do this all the time, give an average of three, three shot groups, which is of course, smaller than the maximum group size of a nine shot group. Some of them just shoot three rounds and claim that as the inherent accuracy of the rifle and ammunition, which of course, three shots are not enough to claim any inherent accuracy. Forty shot groups are a much better way of evaluating inherent accuracy as you are more likely to see 1:100 events. But, three shot groups have become the "Gold Standard" of the shooting community, because the leaders of the shooting community, the In Print writers, use them almost to exclusivity. Their primary reason is economic, they are given a flat fee, around $400, and they don't want to spend too much time and ammunition, as that cuts into their profit. Secondarily, too many shots might reveal the firearm is a turkey. They are not interested in determining inherent accuracy, just getting something out that will have readers run screaming to the local gun store to buy, buy, buy. Amazing that readers will buy a thousand dollar firearm based on a test where the in print evaluator may have fired 12 to 15 rounds total, and at a distance where the choice between a firearm and an atatl would more of a preference.

View attachment 817528

Why not hunt the buffalo with a spear?

View attachment 817529

View attachment 817530

You are -always- a wealth of information, thank you for the info.
Going to save the bullets instead of using them. The box it full as well
as another old box of SPEER that says .30 cal - .3085" 110 grain soft point.
We will check the OAL of the chamber tomorrow & like you said, I suspect the
chamber is too long for the ammo & the action doesn't allow ejection of longer
cartridges.
I have lots of Hornady & other mfg in .308 caliber round nose like 150 & 110 grain
we will try them in the rifles.
Love the spear pics.
 
Semi-jacketed or half jacket bullets used to be very common back a few decades ago. I saw more of them in 44 cal than anything else. Spray a little penetrating oil on those bullets and they'll look a lot better. Corrosion is starting to set in.
 
It seems the semi jacketed bullet was replaced with the plated bullet and now some are replacing those plated with powder coated hard cast. All about lower cost plinking in my book. I am trying hard to keep costs low while maintaining accuracy that is the rub.;)
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top