$2,400.00 for a beginners Sporting Clays gun??!!

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Well of course you don't need to spend $2400 for a beginner's Sporting Clays gun. On the other hand, I agree with the poster who said that a pump is probably the worst choice for a beginner, even though it's the cheapest option.
The way I look at it, if you can easily afford a $2400 gun, and want one, then why not? Why should a beginner not have a really nice gun if that's what he wants? Why should a beginner fly fisherman not buy a Scott, Loomis or Winston rod? They are a joy to use and you can "grow into them" so to speak. The same can be said for a quality shotgun. For some people there is pleasure derived from owning a fine piece of equipment along with the pleasure derived from the sport itself.
 
Under $600 (as low as $450 used): Remington 11-87 Sportsman (or used 1100) 12 gauge. Notice Sportsman (basic field model), not Sporting. You don't need and overbored barrel (but you should get the longest available, probably 28") and you are better off if you can interchange chokes with any other Remington 12 gauge shotguns that you have or will buy in the future. Get an Express Upgrade Kit for 12 gauge (includes IC and Full choke, Speed Wrench, and bottle of Rem Oil.

Under $1200 (as low as $850 used): Browning Gold Sporting Clays 12 gauge. If this fits you, it will be your favorite shotgun. It is very reliable and takes the kick out of even 1300 fps 1 1/8 oz Sporting Clays loads (you might try Handicap Trap 1250-1290 fps - plenty enough power and you might shoot an occasional round of Trap).

$1400: Benelli Supersport. Comes with all the chokes you need and extra shims (in case you need to change the stock fit). Absolutely reliable with Trap and Sporting Clays loads, probably also medium field loads once broken in. Requires less cleaning than gas-operated guns, but slightly more felt recoil. Because of the cost, I would recommend it only if the Remington and Brownings do not fit. Get the gun shop to put in the proper shim (you should be able to shoulder the gun with your eyes closed and have the front bead aligned with the rib when you open them).
Richard
Schennberg.com
 
you know, the guy I talked to at the gun shop said it was nice to see some one step up and use an 870 express amongst the high dollar shotguns- I got a almost brand new used one for 169.00 plus tax- looks like new, and can't beat the price. It is NOT the gun, it IS the shooter!
 
I bought a shotgun off of the current world champ (Army team). It was his starter gun which earned him a lot of top finishes. A Beretta Whitewing. About a grand or so. (The one he shoots now is about 9K)
 
Note that for not much more than the price of a Sportsman plus the Express Upgrade Kit, you can get an 11-87 Premier.

The Premier is a nice polished blue, not the rust-prone Express matte finish, and has a nice checkered walnut stock. It is lighter and better balanced (the Sportsman is a bit overweight for a given barrel length). It is available with a 26", 28" or 30" barrel, and it comes with an ivory front bead and a mid bead, as well as the set of 3 chokes you'd have to pay extra for with the Sportsman.

Street price for the Sportsman plus choke set is around $600. The Premier can be had for just over $700. Both prices are for new guns from retail dealers. Used guns are cheaper, of course.

The Sportsman is simply a heavy, rust-prone bad deal. I would avoid it, though I really like Remingtons in general. Buy the Premier instead.

I have an 870 Express, BTW. It's rust-prone, but otherwise it makes a decent substitute for a Wingmaster and I don't care if I drop it in the dirt. But my 28" Express was HALF the price of a 28" Wingmaster, and though it's heavier, the pump gun is lighter to start with than the 1187 so it's less of a big deal.

If the Sportsman cost $400, it'd be worth it, but to save $100-125, it's not. The Premier is just a much nicer gun by every possible measure.
 
I'd agree with the used Remington 1100 in 28" bbl.
Great shooting gun that's won championships in all types of clay sports.

Even if you buy a different type of shotgun later on, for whatever reason, keep the 1100 as your "everything" shotgun by changing bbls, stocks, etc, etc...slug gun to wingshooting. :)
 
"A Beretta Whitewing. About a grand or so. (The one he shoots now is about 9K)"

I'd still rather have the $9k gun. Or a $90K gun. I wouldn't get rid of my $199 and $328 guns if I got one, but the expensive guns I've seen are nice. I suppose it's all about what we can afford. One man's pocket change is another man's annual income.

John
 
One thing's for sure. When I break $1000 it's not on an autoloader.

Some of the most expensive guns I've seen, handled or shot have been single shots. My most expensive gun is a single shot.

I have a question, though. What does a Cynergy Sporting do that a Field doesn't? Similar in all apparent ways except for the porting, which some do and some don't like.

There are some "sporting" models that I just don't "get." Is the word "Sporting" worth $500-1000? Or are there internal differences?
 
As near as I can tell from doing a lot of reading and listening, you get extended choke tubes and usually better wood and engraving. And maybe a slightly different rib and a 'sporting' recoil pad.

If they'd throw in a finely tuned trigger they'd have something.

John
 
My first trap gun i bought in 77 or 78. Remington 870 TC. I still have it. Paid 300.00 for it and i still break 19 to 23 consistently. I stand next to guys that have paid incredible money for thier guns and don't shoot much better. I am there just to have fun, remember that's what it's all about.
 
I am there just to have fun, remember that's what it's all about.
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True. It's not like your trap score is a matter of life and death.

It's a lot more important than that.
 
My first trap gun i bought in 77 or 78. Remington 870 TC. I still have it.
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He didn't ask about trap. Have you EVER shot sporting clays???

Damn, sporting clays is a whole different program. For the "trap guys"..

do your trap birds cross (oh wait, you only shoot one)

do you shoot doubles (oh wait, you only shoot one)

do you ever shoot birds bouncing across the ground...or straight up, coming at you, two at a time, overhead, crossing in ??

A pump gun is total crap for shooting sporting clays. I've got an 870 that I've used for years for deer, ducks, geese, turkeys, crows, etc. But it isn't a sporting clays gun

Keep in mind i don't know much about sporting clays
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speaks for itself

a pump will work if you want to screw around and don't care what your score is. An automatic will be better because you can get back on target quicker (if you don't want your hulls). If you're serious, get an O/U
 
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Is a quality O/U a better way to go for Sporting Clays? -- YES

Is a $2400 gun necessary for a first Clays gun? -- NO

Can you shoot Sporting Clays with an 870? -- YES, I don't but I see guys shooting 5 Stand with pumps and autos every time I go out.

I started shooting both Trap and Skeet with a field grade 870. I took my first pair of Skeet at station 7 my second weekend out using an IC choke and 9 shot. Trap singles is definitely easier, but doubles can be done and you don't need Dave's extensive range time to do it.

If you decide to try SC with a pump, you can vary your shot pattern by varying your load. #7.5 shot should pattern tighter than #9 shot -- try it.

But then I use an 870 at clay games as practice for using an 870 for real. I don't see clay games as an end, but as a means to an end. I don't worry much about scores other than whether I'm improving with whatever gun I decide to use. If your sole goal is a high score. . . okay, I bought a Browning O/U too, 525 Sporting, fit me like a glove :)
 
Redneck2, Bill Mayer is the 8 time Ohio SC champ.

He uses,gasp, an 870.

A fellow named Steve Cameron from the Midwest turns up in the stats. He shot his way to Master Class with an 870 he spray painted black.

It can be done. It takes proficiency, committment and elbow grease.

I'm not in that League, But I was High Gun last time the Geezer Squad shot trap doubles. Other guns on the line included B guns, a model 21 and a Parker.

The only game I've tried where I thought a pump was a great disadvantage was International or Bunker Trap. Getting off the allowed second shot while the bird is in range is difficult.

But sporting pairs are doable. Oft better than with an auto.

Michael McIntosh, who writes for Shooting Sportsman, mentions in an article about myths that Bang.....Bang.... Bang was an auto and bangbangbang was a pump. He quotes Jim Carmichael as saying a good hand with a pump sounds like he's operating a chainsaw.

Shooting with a buddy for a couple decades showed both of us that an 870 was faster for a second shot than an A-5.

Too bad you don't live closer......
 
do you ever shoot birds bouncing across the ground...or straight up, coming at you, two at a time, overhead, crossing in ??
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Yes, as a matter of fact. With an 870 Express. As long as I avoid really crappy ammo that sticks in the chamber, and use a little oil where it matters, doubles are no problem. Neither are second shots on rabbits, etc.

I've also shot trap doubles with it. Score is right there with the guys with double guns. Ability, not the gun, makes the difference. The guys who have had better scores are better shots.

A pump does complicate things, and you only get 2 shots anyway, so if I BUY a gun for SC it'll be an O/U. Not a semiauto, not another pump.

There's nothing keeping me from enjoying myself and getting hunting practice with the pump, though. It's the best way to learn to use work the action instinctively, quickly, without moving the gun.
 
I love my 870. An 870 was the first shotgun I every owned and I've always owned one. I broke my first clay target with an 870. I know some clay shooters who can shoot them and embarass everyone else, sometimes even I can. My 870 fills a far more important role than just breaking targets. It fills the larder and gives comfort when things go bump in the night.

It is however the WRONG choice for a beginner at sporting clays or skeet and that's what this thread is about, the best choice for a beginner. Why make it harder for them than it needs to be?

If you get into clay target shooting you'll soon find the cost of the gun is the least of your expenses once you start considering your shell and target costs.

The best gun for a new shooter is either an o/u or a semi-auto. If money is tight then find a good used one from one of the major makers. Clay target shooters are fickle and frequently switch guns and there are usually lots of good ones at excellent prices around for the asking. A good used o/u can be bought, shot and then sold for what you have in it if it's kept in reasonable condition.
 
" It aint' the gun and anyone who says it is has some issues somewhere.
__________________
-Tim- "

That's for sure. Some years back we were shooting some clays informally up at the cabin and my one BIL, hereafter to be known as "sack of crap" and shooting a high end O/U of some repute, blamed me and my "POS" Trius trap because my other BIL, hereafter to be known as "good shooter" beat his ass like a brass gong in a Thai restaurant using a Mossberg 12 gauge bolt gun with an adjustable choke.
 
PJR, agreed.

Except about the good cheap O/U's. Perhaps you can clue me in to where you find them.

Yes, a 99% condition Ljutic or Perazzi for under $5000 is a good deal for what it is. But that doesn't help me at the moment...
 
Except about the good cheap O/U's. Perhaps you can clue me in to where you find them.
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I never said anything about cheap but they are good value. I've owned several used o/us including a couple of Berettas, a Krieghoff and two Winchester 101s including a three barrel set. They were shot extensively and sold for what I had in them and in a couple of cases a small profit.

Let say a shooter shoots 5,000 targets a year which is not very much for an active clay shooter. Even at a modest $7.00 per round ($3.00 for targets and $4.00 for shells) that's $1,400 per year. After two years of relatively moderate shooting he has spent more on targets and shells than the $2,400 that started this thread. On a per shot basis the gun quickly becomes the cheapest part of the equation and scrimping on the cost of the gun doesn't make sense.
 
Where do you shoot for $3 a round?

I want to go there.
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Yeah, me too. But I thought I'd use very low numbers to help make the point. For me a round is closer to 9 dollars with $4 for targets and $5 for shells. At that rate 5,000 targets is $1,800 per annum.

I also shoot 10,000 per year or so. I concluded long ago that if I was going to spend that much shooting I'd want something very good with which to do it.;)
 
The place I joined a couple of months ago just raised their rates to 3.50.

But... trap and skeet only. No SC.

OTOH, those voice actuated whizbang wobble machines are like nothing I remember from the Dark Ages.
 
won't claim to be an expert but will pass on some of my own $ lessons learned in shotgunning. First, a $2400 or even $10,000 shotgun will not necessarily make you shoot any better than a $300 gun. The secret ( beyond consistant trigger and patterns) is mostly in fit of the gun to the shooter. If teh gun doesn't fit you JUST right, your fighting the gun. ( Remember your eye is the rear sight. ) I've owned 4 breakopen shotguns in the 4 figure range and STILL to this day have to admit that my best score were accomplished with a $500 Berretta 391 semi auto. The great thing about the Berretas ( besides their value:price ratio) is that they have that great stock shimming system that gives you a custom fit in 30 miniutes of tinkering.

If I had to vote for one gun for sporting clays, I'd vote for the Berretta (or similar systemed Binelli). Less $, better fit and less recoil due to it's operating mode.

p.s. I found a slight disadvantage with pmps for SC as some of the pairs required ULTRA FAST second shots and I'd stumble with that second round. Nothing more practice wouldn't have helped with I guess, I just found teh semi to fix the issue out of the box.
hth
 
I’m a big advocate of making sure the gun fits the guy pulling the trigger. I see a lot of guys that have a gun that they can’t properly stand behind. I had to add ¾” to the stock of my Browning and work on the comb before it fit. I also bought a used 391 that had a 40 mm shim in it that was a real problem for me. I got a headache the first two times I shot it. I put in the 45 mm and now love it.

I’ve also seen duct tape turn a piece of junk into a thing of beauty for some.

Ask a friend at the range to help you. Heck come to the range I shoot at; you can shoot mine.
 
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