2 New Kimbers... Broken..Help me out guys

[lawdogso]

He all.... here is my sad story. I have a Kimber Ultra CDP that only has about 200 rounds thru it. I went to the range a few weeks ago and about everyother round would not eject. It was like the extractor never grabbed them because after the shot the brass stayed in the barrel. So I think it had an extractor problem. I sent it off to Kimber and am awaiting it's return.

Next I went to the range today and my Kimber Combat Gold shot perfect. When I was done cleaning it at home the hammer broke off. The entire circular part of the hammer just broke right off when I let the slide go foreward. I am a bit pissed now that both of my high dollar Kimbers have broke on me with only around 200 rounds thru them.

So let me get to the point.... Guys, should I get these fixed and off them for another brand of 1911? Do you think that these are both just flukes and that I will be happy with these guns if I choose to keep them? What should I do here?

Thanks,
Lawdogso

 

[Kimber1911_06238]

I'm surprised....my Kimber has over 6,000 round without a problem. Hopefully they'll be fixed free of charge and you won't have anymore problems.

 

[ezypikns]

Kimber does make fine pistols.....

but I had an Ultra Carry II that was flawless, and a Custom TLE that never was right. Two trips to the factory and they never could fix it. Unfortunately it seems like a crap shoot. I do have a S&W 1911 that's still going strong after about 3000 rds.

 

[M2 Carbine]

Don't buy any lottery tickets for a while, your luck sucks.

I've got 4 Kimbers and I swear by them.

I would think that Kimber will send you a hammer if you are up to replacing it, to save you having to send it in.

I wouldn't give up on them yet.

 

[hnk45acp]

Kimber will fix and replace your pistols.
It seems that their products are very hit and miss. At my range they have a Kimber that has thousands of rounds and is great but my buddy's Warrior had problems with the plunger tube housing and his front sight broke off. I don't subscribe to the whole MIM is crap thing but Kimbers I've seen have a lot of parts breakage problems. Maybe it's the MIM process they use.

 

[10-Ring]

You know, if these guns have served you well, just have them fixed & keep'em. Maybe look at this as an opportunity to customize your pistols

 

[lawdogso]

What really gets me is the $58.00 I spent on shipping to send the Ultra CDP in for repairs.

 

[gudel]

i'm sure they'll reimburse you for that, while you're at it, perhaps you should thrown in reliability package work

 

[Geno]

I have said it before; I will say it again: In the summer of 2005, I bought 5 Custom Shop Kimbers, 4 were factory defective! I have not bought a Kimber since. I love the look and feel of Kimbers; I hate their sporadic quality control.

You need to call Kimber and have them send you a call slip (shipping label for UPS). Then, you need to call the Sen. Exec. V.P. for Cust. Relations. He told me that he wants to know about such matters. I no longer have his name and number. Call the company and request his name and number. Note, he is not at the same facility that the repair shop is. He is out west...somewhere.

 

[Tombeis]

If you purchased the Kimber's new from a Kimber dealer, Kimber will send the dealer a pickup tag, makek the repair and return the firearm to the dealer at no charge.

 

[glockman19]

Of my two kimbers a Raptor II and a custon II just picked up today I've never had a problem with either. The Raptor II has 1,000 rounds through it and I shot 100 through the Custom II today for the first time.

I like Kimbers. When you make alot of firearms you're bound to make a few lemmons. Even high end manufacturers.

Kimber has good customer service and I think you will get back two guns that will serve you well for the long term.

 

[Old Fuff]

I don't subscribe to the whole MIM is crap thing but Kimbers I've seen have a lot of parts breakage problems. Maybe it's the MIM process they use.

So what is your theory to explain all of this part breakage?

It seems that their products are very hit and miss.

Maybe that is the answer...

...perhaps you should (have) thrown in reliability package work

Shouldn't that have been done in the first place??? Being old and a long way over the hill, I always thought that guns were supposed to work - out of the box. At least that's the way it used to be...

Do you think that these are both just flukes and that I will be happy with these guns if I choose to keep them? What should I do here?

Two flukes out of two does seem a little high. Hopefully you don't plan to stake your neck on them.

But even if they won't shoot, they do have neat names (Ultra CDP, Warrior, Raptor II, Ultra Carry II, Custom TLE, Combat Gold, etc.) With names like that they should shoot up a storm...

Well anyway, do send them in. The broken MIM parts will be replaced... with new MIM parts. You didn't mention if these pistols had external or internal extractors, but I understand the external ones have been causing trouble, and are being replaced. Who knows - they may actually work when they come back and you'll be a winner.

In the meantime, stay out of trouble...

 

[MICHAEL T]

Fuffmay be needs some of the fang ammo to go with them.
Sorry about you Kimbers Now you understand why I buy only COLTS Get them fixed and then move them on. Springfield Colt even S&W will be a inprovement

 

[DHart]

Kimber makes an appealing LOOKING product. Too bad about the Schwartz mechanism and all the MIM parts, though. Many of them do actually run well, but it sure seems like a TON of them don't work for beans either! TOTAL crap shoot. And I'm sorry, but MIM apologists have it wrong, IMHO, MIM parts are cheap! Period. When you were cleaning it your hammer broke off ???? What? Well, ya gotta give it to MIM parts, they sure do know how to fail catastrophically. Get some high quality fire control components in that gun (C&S) and you're likely to have parts which will outlast your lifetime.

 

[Old Fuff]

The Old Fuff has decided to apologize for his previously sarcastic post that might be see by some as being less then a High Road sort of reply to the original question.

But that said, he is more then fed up with companies that turn out handguns with catchy combat/weapon related names that contain sub-par parts and are otherwise functionally unreliable. It would seem that absolute reliability and quality components would have top priority over gimmicks and gadgets, but this does not seem to be the case. Hit and miss quality control should never be acceptable in a weapon of any kind.

Too many buyers, having spent a lot of money in the first place, decide to make necessary corrections or improvements themselves, and pay for it out of their own pocket – thereby adding additional insult to injury. The proper course in my opinion is to send the lemon back to the manufacturer and demand that they make it right on their dime.

The Old Fuff would also observe – from long experience – that Colt Government Model and USGI 1911A1 pistols manufactured before 1965 were made to U.S. government specifications using 100% high-carbon, heat treated, steel components and not some molded-out-of-powdered-metal substitute. They were expected to be reliable when they came out of the box, and usually were. They went through two major World Wars, and numerous smaller engagements, and are not known for having parts self-destruct while the pistol was being cleaned or otherwise handled. The numerous problems we hear about now are limited to current adaptations of the original design, none of which are true reproductions of Browning’s .45 pistol. Some truths should be self-evident.

 

[Walkalong]

Shouldn't that have been done in the first place??? Being old and a long way over the hill, I always thought that guns were supposed to work - out of the box. At least that's the way it used to be...

I don't think I am quite as seasoned as Old Fluff, but I concurr. I don't want a "fixed" brand new product. I want a brand new product that works. It is very frustrating when this happens.

 

[Haycreek]

Kimber broken

I have a Series 1 Classic Gold Match that has never had a problem, that said, I have a new Detonics 911-01 that is 100 % stainless steel and ALL internal parts are CNC machined steel. I like it better than the Kimber. Checkout Detonics USA website.

 

[Dobe]

The Old Fuff would also observe – from long experience – that Colt Government Model and USGI 1911A1 pistols manufactured before 1965 were made to U.S. government specifications using 100% high-carbon, heat treated, steel components and not some molded-out-of-powdered-metal substitute. They were expected to be reliable when they came out of the box, and usually were. They went through two major World Wars, and numerous smaller engagements, and are not known for having parts self-destruct while the pistol was being cleaned or otherwise handled. The numerous problems we hear about now are limited to current adaptations of the original design, none of which are true reproductions of Browning’s .45 pistol. Some truths should be self-evident.

Yep, but unfortunately modern times mean labor intensive manufacturing must be put aside. That is, if a manufacturer wishes to sell any handguns. There is nothing wrong with MIM, as long as MIM is produced correctly. Many, many if not most handguns are incorporating MIM without problems. Kimber seems to have suffered more than most. This too should be self evident. I have heard of more complaints from the Kimber crowd about MIM than any other, and I have enjoyed my Kimber 1911's.

I wish we were able to have forged parts at prices we could actually afford, and prices on which a company could sustain itself. That's just not reality.

 

[ugaarguy]

I wish we were able to have forged parts at prices we could actually afford, and prices on which a company could sustain itself. That's just not reality.

How much more would it cost? C&S sells mated hammer/sear/disconnect sets at about $150. These are cut from plate stock. I think they've got the right idea.

 

[Dobe]

Ed Brown makes a fine 1911 Exectutive Target for about 2,300-2,400, and he uses some cast parts. He doesn't use MIM. I believe he doesn't use MIM based on the reputation of MIM rather than the quality of properly manufactured MIM. How much would an Ed Brown cost, if it were made of all forged parts? Apparently, Ed Brown believes he would price himself out of the market.

I can only assume that is what Colt, Smith & Wesson, Kimber, and others also believe. They are all chasing after your 1911 dollars. As soon as one of them finds a cheaper way to manufacture, and still provide the quality, they will get that dollar.

A good example would be the AR24 threads that are popping up on different gun forum sites now. A forged CZ clone for 550 bucks, I think it would be great. Yet most of the CZ loyalist say why pay 50-60 dollars more for forged when you can get the real thing for less? The "real thing" now is cast. In reality, the cast CZ will shoot just as well.

As long as the process gives the same results, most American buyers will go for the less expensive. It is the same reason the Japanese got a foot hold into the American car market.

 

[Old Fuff]

The Old Fuff would like to point out that in his last post he did not use the word "forging" or “forged.” What he said was.

Colt Government Model and USGI 1911A1 pistols manufactured before 1965 were made to U.S. government specifications using 100% high-carbon, heat treated, steel components and not some molded-out-of-powdered-metal substitute.

It is true that the older guns I referred to had forged frames, slides, barrels, and sometimes grip safeties, safety locks, hammers, sears, and disconectors. Today those parts can be (and sometimes are) machined from the correct steel alloy bar stock and then heat-treated. Frames and slides can be investment cast. Any manufacturing method requires effective quality control, and today - where the lowest possible price is the name of the game - quality control and inspection procedures are sadly lacking.

MIM can be used to make gun parts - but good ones depend on the part being designed to take advantage of the technology. In the case of 1911 platform pistols it's a case of duplicating parts that were intended to be made using a different fabrication method. The manufacturer's intent is to obtain a less expensive part, not necessarily an equal or better one.

The Old Fuff is well aware that a correctly made 1911 pistol must be expensive in today’s manufacturing environment. However some cost reduction and improved reliability can be had by sticking to the blueprints, and putting less emphasis on superfluous modifications. What is unconscionable is the practice of demeaning the reputation of the original product, by putting an inferior one on market that they imply – if not say outright – is equal or better then the older Colt’s and government 1911 pistols of an earlier era.

 

[TimboKhan]

By god, if this was a Taurus 1911, there would be 50 posts by people screaming about how bad Taurus QC is, and how ridiculous it is that you had to pay for your shipping to them. Go get a Taurus. You will spend less and be happier.

 

[DHart]

Fortunately, today's Colts are still made with (mostly) parts which are of high quality. The only MIM in current Colts are: sear, disconnector, and mag catch. Those three parts are subject to very low stress compared to other high stress parts like hammers, thumb safeties, and slide stops. The sear, disconnector, and mag catch in Colts are easily and inexpensively replaced with premium components. Guns such as Kimbers and Springfields are made almost entirely of MIM parts and to rid them of MIM would be much more involded and much more costly.

 

[possum]

sorry to hear those problems i am wanting a kimber tle ll. i thought my gun karma was bad!

10-ring, your not gonna tell him to dump those pos's and get an h&k? i am suprised!

What really gets me is the $58.00 I spent on shipping to send the Ultra CDP in for repairs.

save the recipt where you paid the shipping and send it to them, i can't speak for kimber but that is how springfield does it. alos if you ever have another problem have the company send you a shipping lable so that way you don't have to be reimbursed. they pay for it that way.

 

[ugaarguy]

Fortunately, today's Colts are still made with (mostly) parts which are of high quality. The only MIM in current Colts are: sear, disconnector, and mag catch.

I'll add that my XSE Combat Commander most definetly has a MIM ambi thumbsafety.