This is great news. Hopefully these both pass. The TN governor already said he'd sign it into law.
https://www.foxnews.com/us/tennessee-iowa-permitless-carry
https://www.foxnews.com/us/tennessee-iowa-permitless-carry
2 state legislatures pass pro-Second Amendment permitless carry bills
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Carl N. Brown
Member
I grew up 1953-1968 in a "dry" county in Tennessee. So I have no faith in malum prohibitum laws affecting bad behavior by bad intentioned people. Constitutional carry will not affect the bad guys who always carried illegally anyway and the majority of whom acquired their weapons from grey or black market sources.
Still, I would prefer that everyone intending to carry for lawful self defense get the instruction on the lawful use of force in self-defense that is part of the carry permit process.
Given the states that have adopted constitutional carry without an increase in crime or in unjustified shootings in the name of self- defense, my concerns may be baseless.
Still, I would prefer that everyone intending to carry for lawful self defense get the instruction on the lawful use of force in self-defense that is part of the carry permit process.
Given the states that have adopted constitutional carry without an increase in crime or in unjustified shootings in the name of self- defense, my concerns may be baseless.
I would be happier if people that choose to use the "priveledge" of driving to be given the proper instruction in the safe use of a vehicle. Clearly that is not the case.
bangswitch
Member
I'm curious to know how "permit-less" carry affects those in the permit-less states when they travel to states that still require a concealed carry permit and would otherwise honor a permit from the state that now does not require one?
They would honor only a permit. Constitutional carry only applies in the state that allows it, and some states require you to be a resident to exercise it.
The law allows permits for those that want to travel to states that have a reciprocity agreement.
Carl N. Brown
Member
In the Tennessee Constitution, the legislature is granted the power to regulate the bearing of arms in public with a view to prevent crime. From court opinions, statements of legislative intent, and attorney general opinions: regulation must not unduly restrict the constitutional right of the the citizen to keep and bear arms for traditionally lawful purposes, including self defense in the home or place of business, military preparedness or civilian marksmanship training, hunting, protecting livestock from predators, recreational shooting or collection of curios or ornaments. To stand a TN gun law must be strictly tailored and actually accomplish its purpose of crime prevention.
The old system of Application for Permission to Purchase a Handgun, submitted to chief of police or county sheriff who could take 15 days to do a BG check and yea or nay, has been replaced by the Tennessee Instant Check System (linked to the NICS) with denial/approval in minutes. And approval of purchase was limited to possession in the home or place of business for self defense. Transportation to go target practice always carried the possibility of getting gigged for illegally "going armed" and carry if a handgun while hunting was questioned.
The old TN sheriff permit to carry a handgun in public for self-defense system with 95 different county standards from "why not" to "forget about it" was replaced with a state wide system with one set of open published standards.
Baby steps towards gun rights maybe. But steps nonetheless.
The old system of Application for Permission to Purchase a Handgun, submitted to chief of police or county sheriff who could take 15 days to do a BG check and yea or nay, has been replaced by the Tennessee Instant Check System (linked to the NICS) with denial/approval in minutes. And approval of purchase was limited to possession in the home or place of business for self defense. Transportation to go target practice always carried the possibility of getting gigged for illegally "going armed" and carry if a handgun while hunting was questioned.
The old TN sheriff permit to carry a handgun in public for self-defense system with 95 different county standards from "why not" to "forget about it" was replaced with a state wide system with one set of open published standards.
Baby steps towards gun rights maybe. But steps nonetheless.
Carl N. Brown
Member
Tennessee recognizes valid state carry permits, even those from New York, although New York refuses to recognize permits from other States.
DustyGmt
Member
I wish VT would have a permit option, they never have. Guess I can't complain since VT is where I am 99.9% of the time and the only other place I go is NH, which doesn't require a permit but does issue them. I've considered going that route of getting a NH permit for the rare occasion I see folks down south, however seldom. When you've been carrying for years going without just feels all wrong. Thankfully I've got many years of practice and am pretty confident with a blade....
RETG
Member
Not technically correct. Some states require a reciprocity agreement to accept another states permits; however, states can "recognize" another state's permit without an actual reciprocity agreement.
Speedo66
Member
NYC doesn’t even recognize permits from the other 57 counties in the state.
Mousegun
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Shall not be infringed and all that ya' know. Anywho, most people I know that got their permit, carried their gun until it got too heavy, too hot, forgot, became annoyed with it rubbing something or a variety of other things.
I bet Constitutional carry will go pretty much the same route. There will be an influx of new carry people and some may even take the time to read the laws and find out more about it. Then, in due time, the newness will wear off and when they find they can't leave the state without a permit (for the most part), they will either get the permit or keep the gun in the drawer most of the time.
Tennessee even enacted an on line permit that is as useless as certain protrusions on a bull. Most states do not recognize it.
The best thing for us all is to get the full blown "enhanced" permit, take the class and learn the rules. Constitutional carry is a great way of showing that Tennessee honors our founding document as written, as it should be in ALL states.
We're of the same mind. I'm a strong proponent of safety and legal responsibility training, but data from CC states doesn't reflect any increase in issues so I somewhat reluctantly abandon my natural inclination for what analysis has shown.
BLACKHAWKNJ
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One problem I see is what happens when you cross state lines ? Drivers licenses are good nationwide.
SunnySlopes
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Understatement.
buck460XVR
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Since I already have a permit in my state, what interests me more would be universal reciprocity between states. Teaching Hunter Safety(which is the minimal requirement here for a permit), has shown me that most all new gun owners need some form of general training for the safe and responsible handling of firearms. This minimal amount of training not only makes folks safer to themselves and others, but improves their confidence and their proficiency with the firearm and it's handling. This is true for even the online courses. Comparing criminal carry to responsible gun ownership is a far reach.
.308 Norma
Member
Are there any states that have gone "Constitutional carry," or "Permitless carry" that don't continue to offer CCW licenses/permits for people that want them? Curious.
It would make sense to me that states that went "Constitutional carry" would continue to sell CCW licenses/permits to people who want them. I mean, aren't the licenses/permits a source of revenue for the state? I'm pretty sure the CCW licenses/permits are a source of income for the Instructors of CCW classes too.
Idaho went "Constitutional carry" (for the most part) a few years back. Yet Idaho still offers two (both "Standard" and "Enhanced") CCW Licenses to people that want them. The "Enhanced" versions require an 8-hour class (including actually firing a gun), but they're good in a few more states than the "Standard" versions, and they provide for legal concealed carry on Idaho's college and university campuses.
BTW, I read in a newspaper just the other day that there's an Idaho Legislator that is pushing legal concealed carry (for people with Idaho "Enhanced" CCW Licenses) in Idaho's public schools. I don't know if it will go anywhere or not - the newspaper said that this is the third attempt by that Legislator to push it through.
SSN Vet
Member
Maine went constitutional carry, and fortunately NH followed suite (and VT always was). I live right on the border and cross it multiple times every day, and infrequently travel to VT for work.
We're trapped in northern New England due to MA being complete pin heads.... but they never never had reciprocity with their neighbors anyways, so nothing has changed there.
I had CCW permits in ME and NH before constitutional carry and both were "shall issue" states. But the NH out of state permit was pricey and I'm happy to keep that money in my pocket and not worry about expiration dates and cards.
stillquietvoice
Contributing Member
Most in NYC can't even obtain a ccw unless they are LE, or govt employees of some kind.
JN01
Member
The news headline is inaccurate, those bills were not passed by the legislatures. They were both passed by one chamber of their legislatures and will have to pass in the other chamber, then either be signed by the Governor or allowed to become law by the Governor.
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