joab
Member
Please reread my post
2004 Florida Hurricanes: TEOTWAWKI Lessons
- Thread starter Travis McGee
- Start date
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feedthehogs
Member
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2003
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- 1,801
I don't think this thread is about the need to prepare in hurricane season.
We all know that.
None of the Floridians who posted here are really complaining either about living in hurricane season.
Its about the idea of what happens when disaster strikes and you are cut off from outside help for a couple of days or more.
There's no tin foil hat thinking only real life situations and the results of different areas in the same state.
Most of what I learned from the 04 season I can not change or do anything about because they involved outside entities that are not under my control.
If you leave the tin foil behind, these threads provide a valuable lesson to others that have never been thru a natural or man made disaster.
While there was never any concern about my safety in the short run, and the possible use of firearms was way down the list, had this situation gone on for a month, it would have been different.
Its always good no matter where you live to have a couple weeks of food and water stored up at any one time.
We all know that.
None of the Floridians who posted here are really complaining either about living in hurricane season.
Its about the idea of what happens when disaster strikes and you are cut off from outside help for a couple of days or more.
There's no tin foil hat thinking only real life situations and the results of different areas in the same state.
Most of what I learned from the 04 season I can not change or do anything about because they involved outside entities that are not under my control.
If you leave the tin foil behind, these threads provide a valuable lesson to others that have never been thru a natural or man made disaster.
While there was never any concern about my safety in the short run, and the possible use of firearms was way down the list, had this situation gone on for a month, it would have been different.
Its always good no matter where you live to have a couple weeks of food and water stored up at any one time.
these are my thoughts, If your plan consists of being "prepared" for two days to two weeks,and is based on the concept of outside entities or outside help...and this help is from state or federal agencies...then your plan is flawed....and based on a questionable assumption. A plan must consist of one that covers the next hour to one that consists of private outside help as well as a complete evac plan....not being in control....and not having a plan to retain control... are the key words. My experience with natural or man made disasters has taught me, that help comes when, or if, it arrives....and until then...your on your own. This is not being critical, but realistic.
Hutch,
Your observations are about the same as mine concerning the Birmingham area and power outages. That blizzard in 93 was very suprising. For the better. I think overall crime actually dropped in the region during that storm. We helped some and others helped us. It was actually kind of nice.
To all:
One tip I'd like to pass on. A Coleman fuel (liquid) camp stove can be one of your best "hard time" investments if used safely. That and a few gallons of fuel. During a 5 day power outage in 93 twenty of us weathered that storm/power outage in one house (inlaws). One Coleman stove and two-tree gallons of fuel supplied us with hot food three times a day and enough warmed water (bathing and clothes washing) for all of us during that time. I've not been without one since. That, a water filter, a kerosene heater and duct tape.
Your observations are about the same as mine concerning the Birmingham area and power outages. That blizzard in 93 was very suprising. For the better. I think overall crime actually dropped in the region during that storm. We helped some and others helped us. It was actually kind of nice.
To all:
One tip I'd like to pass on. A Coleman fuel (liquid) camp stove can be one of your best "hard time" investments if used safely. That and a few gallons of fuel. During a 5 day power outage in 93 twenty of us weathered that storm/power outage in one house (inlaws). One Coleman stove and two-tree gallons of fuel supplied us with hot food three times a day and enough warmed water (bathing and clothes washing) for all of us during that time. I've not been without one since. That, a water filter, a kerosene heater and duct tape.
bamawrx
Member
Travis,
Good book by the way, I agree with your assessment that the storms were dry runs. We experienced Ivan the Terrible near Pensacola, FL and it kicked our butts. But the calvary was here almost overnight to save the day. You are correct that if this had been something national or regional the results would have been very different. Our small town was covered up with law enforcement from all over the state. We heard sirens all day and night. Just imagine something bigger with no help from outside. I really don't know what would have happened, but it could have turned ugly in short order.
I was ready for the fighting part, but could have done a better job at some other preparations. I have a modified "to do list" based on this experience, but my list is still based on the local disaster. A large scale shtf situation would be miserable.
Probably the single largest difference between the hurricane and some national or regional event is you can start to prepare a couple days out of the storm because you know its out there. Just imagine how screwed up things would get with a (insert major attack/disaster here) with no warning.
Good book by the way, I agree with your assessment that the storms were dry runs. We experienced Ivan the Terrible near Pensacola, FL and it kicked our butts. But the calvary was here almost overnight to save the day. You are correct that if this had been something national or regional the results would have been very different. Our small town was covered up with law enforcement from all over the state. We heard sirens all day and night. Just imagine something bigger with no help from outside. I really don't know what would have happened, but it could have turned ugly in short order.
I was ready for the fighting part, but could have done a better job at some other preparations. I have a modified "to do list" based on this experience, but my list is still based on the local disaster. A large scale shtf situation would be miserable.
Probably the single largest difference between the hurricane and some national or regional event is you can start to prepare a couple days out of the storm because you know its out there. Just imagine how screwed up things would get with a (insert major attack/disaster here) with no warning.
I was prepared, and it still hit us hard.
The eyes of both Jeanne and Frances came aground at Stewart, just south of where I live in Satellite Beach. So we got the stronger winds north of the eye, and I live on a barrier island beachside, 75 yards from the ocean. My unit sent me to Goodfellow AFB, TX to set up an alternate command post, so my wife was left with the three dogs to evacuate on her own.
Preparations had begun the year or so before. Part of the house is off-grid as an experiment I'm playing with using solar panel arrays, a 2kva inverter, and a big rack of surplus telephone company batteries. No generator, but an Oldsmobile Achieva with another inverter attached to the alternator was idled for a few hours to give the battery rack an extra boost. The Olds was actually a very quiet generator, compared to the noisy things throughout the neighborhood.
I had organized the kitchen pantry into a bug-out configuration, so that when the sheriff or base commander ordered an evacuation of the barrier islands, all we had to do was sweep the non-perishable contents of the organized shelves right into the large plastic bins we had bought for evacuation. A case of MRE's was already in one of the bins, as was a case of bottled water and one of those 5-gallon collapsible water jugs. A third bin was full of canned and dry dog food, plus Milk-Bone biscuits for the long car trip. A Coleman Peak 1 gasoline stove and a couple pans were great for heating things up.
I had begun the habit of fueling my lawnmower from a 5-gallon jerry can, alternating with a spare 3-gallon plastic tank. Her Hyundai Accent would get the 3-gallon reserve, my Chevy S-10 would get the 5-gallon jerry can. That decision was based on a previous Florida evacuation where I witnessed gas stations charging $5.00 or more per gallon. Not a bad idea in hindsight, because fuel shipments to Florida gas stations were severely curtailed during the hurricanes of 2004.
As the projected path of Frances headed towards the east coast of Florida, we did some extra work. Our go-to guns and ammo stayed with us, but we moved the remainder of the 100+ firearms and ammo to a friend's house on the mainland, each rifle/shotgun/handgun individually wrapped in garbage bags and taped tightly closed before bring stored in an upstairs walk-in closet. All the ammo cans stayed in my pickup's box, which remained parked in my friend's 3-car garage for the first hurricane. On the way back to the house, we stopped on the mainland and topped off the remaining vehicle - the gas stations on the barrier islands were already dry. At the house, I disconnected and stowed the solar panels from their mounts and let the charge controller trickle charge the system from the utility line voltage. We filled the bathtub completely with water and a bit of bleach, then moved electronics and clothing to overhead cabinets in interior hallways. That left a small TV and our laptop for connectivity.
The next day, as predicted, I departed for Texas. Shortly afterwards, the evacuation order for the barrier islands came from the Brevard County Sheriff's Department. Here's where timing is critical - causeways between barrier islands and the mainland are closed when the wind speed approaches 50 knots. My wife had to leave work on the mainland, scoot across the causeway to our beachside house, load the final items and dogs into the car, and make it back across the causeway before the county closed it. Then she was on her way north to Montgomery Alabama, with the first few hours on I-95 averaging about 20 mph. She called me when she pulled into Montgomery, around 0300 the next morning. Calling her on the cell phone was difficult the entire time, Sprint had switched the tower transponders to emergency use frequencies, per their agreement with local and state governments.
I stayed deployed in Texas for the duration of both Frances and Ivan, so my wife gave me the first-hand reports of what our county and neighborhood looked like, once the all clear was sounded to return. Power was out, and reports were that the utilities had purposely cut the grid to minimize damage prior to the arrival of the heaviest winds. The power stayed out for just over a week in my neighborhood. There were no traffic signals, because they had been blown completely off their dangling wire mounts at each intersection. Hotels/motels along the beach had been overpressured and gutted, but their size had saved houses further inland that had been masked by the hotels upwind. (Somewhere I have a picture of our local Ramada Inn that had the north wall blown completely out - it's still closed and unrepaired)
My house looked ok, save for a bunch of missing shingles on the roof. That, and my office/reloading lab had a good sized chunk of the roof in the corner that showed daylight - plywood and blue tarp time. The contents of the refrigerators were kicking over. Remember that. Hurricane Ivan passed by, missing our county but dumping even more rain into a region that didn't need it. My wife said she saw water shooting up through manhole covers.
I came home after Ivan, hoping to clean up and get on with normalcy. No such luck. Jeanne was heading ashore after meandering in the Atlantic for an agonizingly long time. Sure as heck, there's Jim Cantore again, broadcasting from Palm Bay. Crap. We spent the remaining time before the next evacuation order restocking the hurricane kits, and getting ready to leave again. The order came, and we took two vehicles, this time to Kissimmee.
We returned beachside after 3 days in Kissimmee. Vegetation, signs, and power poles that hadn't been knocked down by Frances were taken care of by Jeanne. The hibiscus bush in front of my kitchen was completely stripped of leaves. Roofing shingles were everywhere on the ground and in the streets. The wooden stairways going over the dunes to the beach ended abruptly 4-8 feet above the water - there was no beach for the stairs to make contact with.
Power stayed out for another 7 days. I moved both refrigerators to the driveway, removed their now-liquid contents, finished gagging, then attacked them with bleach. Charcoal briquets on newspaper were then used to extract odors for the next several weeks. My solar/photovoltaic system allowed us to connect our cable modem, laptop, small TV, and have lights and a room fan without too much trouble.
The sheriff's department busted 3 teenagers for looting 4 houses in a row, just to the east of ours. Brevard County had issued a no-bail policy for looting during the hurricane season, so they got to cool their heels in jail until their court dates. What was interesting is that these kids were busted for armed robbery - they were fully armed as they broke into homes, ready just in case. Had they tried our residence while we were home...
Fuel shipments eventually made their way back to the local gas stations. The piles of debris and vegetation curbside were eventually picked up by special county disposal runs. FEMA, Red Cross, Salvation Army, and other agencies set up locations in local parking lots to distribute ice, water, blue tarps, and canned goods. Seeing friend's houses marked with the orange paint as uninhabitable really hits hard.
Lessons learned for the 2005 hurricane season?
British tourists marooned by the airlines at a LaQuinta Inn in Kissimmee get really big eyes when they see a family offload a truck with a big Coleman cooler, a big dog, and the patriarch with a sidefolder AK slung over his shoulder as they move things into their motel room. The spouse had an AR slung over her shoulder. Maybe some discretion would be in order, but we noticed a bunch more evacuees offloading vehicles into their rooms shortly after we arrived. A recurring theme, just make sure you get your room reservations early.
Even though your years as a GI have numbed you to MRE's, don't expect your wife to relish eating them after the second or third day. (I've since stocked up the pantry with those little Dinty Moore lunch cup thingies for her)
Weber grills, or propane grills, are wonderful as the power continues to stay off. Same goes for Coleman stoves. And those solar-heated shower bags are also a nice touch.
If you're at a post-hurricane standstill, either at home or at work, go help somebody else, or visit neighbors/friends.
Human nature being what it is, looting does happen. We didn't leave much of value in the house last time, but we also had some warning before the hurricane hit.
Keep your insurance current, including any riders you have for firearms, collectibles, etc. Is your policy set up to include flood damage from the storm surge? The wrong time to try to adjust or set up a new policy is during hurricane season, often times they won't allow policies to be created during this period.
Patronize your local businesses. We spent a goodly amount of time at the local raw oyster/buffalo wings bar, as did others. It seemed to help with the community recovery efforts.
Don't be surprised if you can't call somebody on a cell phone. The towers may be switched over.
Evacuation routes may not be 55mph as people get out of Dodge City. Think about alternate routes, full gas tanks, etc.
Pedigree canned dog food on a cracker ain't half bad. Just don't make a habit of it.
The eyes of both Jeanne and Frances came aground at Stewart, just south of where I live in Satellite Beach. So we got the stronger winds north of the eye, and I live on a barrier island beachside, 75 yards from the ocean. My unit sent me to Goodfellow AFB, TX to set up an alternate command post, so my wife was left with the three dogs to evacuate on her own.
Preparations had begun the year or so before. Part of the house is off-grid as an experiment I'm playing with using solar panel arrays, a 2kva inverter, and a big rack of surplus telephone company batteries. No generator, but an Oldsmobile Achieva with another inverter attached to the alternator was idled for a few hours to give the battery rack an extra boost. The Olds was actually a very quiet generator, compared to the noisy things throughout the neighborhood.
I had organized the kitchen pantry into a bug-out configuration, so that when the sheriff or base commander ordered an evacuation of the barrier islands, all we had to do was sweep the non-perishable contents of the organized shelves right into the large plastic bins we had bought for evacuation. A case of MRE's was already in one of the bins, as was a case of bottled water and one of those 5-gallon collapsible water jugs. A third bin was full of canned and dry dog food, plus Milk-Bone biscuits for the long car trip. A Coleman Peak 1 gasoline stove and a couple pans were great for heating things up.
I had begun the habit of fueling my lawnmower from a 5-gallon jerry can, alternating with a spare 3-gallon plastic tank. Her Hyundai Accent would get the 3-gallon reserve, my Chevy S-10 would get the 5-gallon jerry can. That decision was based on a previous Florida evacuation where I witnessed gas stations charging $5.00 or more per gallon. Not a bad idea in hindsight, because fuel shipments to Florida gas stations were severely curtailed during the hurricanes of 2004.
As the projected path of Frances headed towards the east coast of Florida, we did some extra work. Our go-to guns and ammo stayed with us, but we moved the remainder of the 100+ firearms and ammo to a friend's house on the mainland, each rifle/shotgun/handgun individually wrapped in garbage bags and taped tightly closed before bring stored in an upstairs walk-in closet. All the ammo cans stayed in my pickup's box, which remained parked in my friend's 3-car garage for the first hurricane. On the way back to the house, we stopped on the mainland and topped off the remaining vehicle - the gas stations on the barrier islands were already dry. At the house, I disconnected and stowed the solar panels from their mounts and let the charge controller trickle charge the system from the utility line voltage. We filled the bathtub completely with water and a bit of bleach, then moved electronics and clothing to overhead cabinets in interior hallways. That left a small TV and our laptop for connectivity.
The next day, as predicted, I departed for Texas. Shortly afterwards, the evacuation order for the barrier islands came from the Brevard County Sheriff's Department. Here's where timing is critical - causeways between barrier islands and the mainland are closed when the wind speed approaches 50 knots. My wife had to leave work on the mainland, scoot across the causeway to our beachside house, load the final items and dogs into the car, and make it back across the causeway before the county closed it. Then she was on her way north to Montgomery Alabama, with the first few hours on I-95 averaging about 20 mph. She called me when she pulled into Montgomery, around 0300 the next morning. Calling her on the cell phone was difficult the entire time, Sprint had switched the tower transponders to emergency use frequencies, per their agreement with local and state governments.
I stayed deployed in Texas for the duration of both Frances and Ivan, so my wife gave me the first-hand reports of what our county and neighborhood looked like, once the all clear was sounded to return. Power was out, and reports were that the utilities had purposely cut the grid to minimize damage prior to the arrival of the heaviest winds. The power stayed out for just over a week in my neighborhood. There were no traffic signals, because they had been blown completely off their dangling wire mounts at each intersection. Hotels/motels along the beach had been overpressured and gutted, but their size had saved houses further inland that had been masked by the hotels upwind. (Somewhere I have a picture of our local Ramada Inn that had the north wall blown completely out - it's still closed and unrepaired)
My house looked ok, save for a bunch of missing shingles on the roof. That, and my office/reloading lab had a good sized chunk of the roof in the corner that showed daylight - plywood and blue tarp time. The contents of the refrigerators were kicking over. Remember that. Hurricane Ivan passed by, missing our county but dumping even more rain into a region that didn't need it. My wife said she saw water shooting up through manhole covers.
I came home after Ivan, hoping to clean up and get on with normalcy. No such luck. Jeanne was heading ashore after meandering in the Atlantic for an agonizingly long time. Sure as heck, there's Jim Cantore again, broadcasting from Palm Bay. Crap. We spent the remaining time before the next evacuation order restocking the hurricane kits, and getting ready to leave again. The order came, and we took two vehicles, this time to Kissimmee.
We returned beachside after 3 days in Kissimmee. Vegetation, signs, and power poles that hadn't been knocked down by Frances were taken care of by Jeanne. The hibiscus bush in front of my kitchen was completely stripped of leaves. Roofing shingles were everywhere on the ground and in the streets. The wooden stairways going over the dunes to the beach ended abruptly 4-8 feet above the water - there was no beach for the stairs to make contact with.
Power stayed out for another 7 days. I moved both refrigerators to the driveway, removed their now-liquid contents, finished gagging, then attacked them with bleach. Charcoal briquets on newspaper were then used to extract odors for the next several weeks. My solar/photovoltaic system allowed us to connect our cable modem, laptop, small TV, and have lights and a room fan without too much trouble.
The sheriff's department busted 3 teenagers for looting 4 houses in a row, just to the east of ours. Brevard County had issued a no-bail policy for looting during the hurricane season, so they got to cool their heels in jail until their court dates. What was interesting is that these kids were busted for armed robbery - they were fully armed as they broke into homes, ready just in case. Had they tried our residence while we were home...
Fuel shipments eventually made their way back to the local gas stations. The piles of debris and vegetation curbside were eventually picked up by special county disposal runs. FEMA, Red Cross, Salvation Army, and other agencies set up locations in local parking lots to distribute ice, water, blue tarps, and canned goods. Seeing friend's houses marked with the orange paint as uninhabitable really hits hard.
Lessons learned for the 2005 hurricane season?
British tourists marooned by the airlines at a LaQuinta Inn in Kissimmee get really big eyes when they see a family offload a truck with a big Coleman cooler, a big dog, and the patriarch with a sidefolder AK slung over his shoulder as they move things into their motel room. The spouse had an AR slung over her shoulder. Maybe some discretion would be in order, but we noticed a bunch more evacuees offloading vehicles into their rooms shortly after we arrived. A recurring theme, just make sure you get your room reservations early.
Even though your years as a GI have numbed you to MRE's, don't expect your wife to relish eating them after the second or third day.
(I've since stocked up the pantry with those little Dinty Moore lunch cup thingies for her)Weber grills, or propane grills, are wonderful as the power continues to stay off. Same goes for Coleman stoves. And those solar-heated shower bags are also a nice touch.
If you're at a post-hurricane standstill, either at home or at work, go help somebody else, or visit neighbors/friends.
Human nature being what it is, looting does happen. We didn't leave much of value in the house last time, but we also had some warning before the hurricane hit.
Keep your insurance current, including any riders you have for firearms, collectibles, etc. Is your policy set up to include flood damage from the storm surge? The wrong time to try to adjust or set up a new policy is during hurricane season, often times they won't allow policies to be created during this period.
Patronize your local businesses. We spent a goodly amount of time at the local raw oyster/buffalo wings bar, as did others. It seemed to help with the community recovery efforts.
Don't be surprised if you can't call somebody on a cell phone. The towers may be switched over.
Evacuation routes may not be 55mph as people get out of Dodge City. Think about alternate routes, full gas tanks, etc.
Pedigree canned dog food on a cracker ain't half bad. Just don't make a habit of it.
Ol' Badger
Member
Good thing I dont like my neighbors! Make it easier to laugh at them from my A/Ced bunker. Wearing my Capitians hat at a jaunty angle and my ascot tied just so sipping at a chilled martini in one hand and my .45 in the other. Maybe my blue blazer with my club logo on the breast will impress them too!
P95Carry
Moderator Emeritus
Gewehr - I second Arc-lite's comment - very good read for many I'd say. Thx for your time writing that up.
Don't know how much wisdom was in that posting...
More like scared $hitless, if you know what I mean. Both Frances and Jeanne were downgraded to Category III or lower by the time they hit the beach, but that's still a lot of wind. Case in point, all the condos and motels are supposed to be rated for better than Cat III, but here's my nearby Ramada Inn, looking southbound on Highway A1A. Those dangly bits of wire over the intersection were once the anchoring points for the traffic signals. The north wall of the Ramada Inn was blown out by Jeanne, because Frances had blown in all the east-facing glass walls and sliding doors on the seaside. Jeanne also blew out the doors on the west side, and many were on A1A, most here seen piled up on the northbound shoulder. I'm certain that the buildings probably could've survived better, save for the fact that Jeanne moved so slowly that she packed sustained winds of 75 knots and better. A half-hour or so of exceptionally high wind is one thing, but several hours/one day of just high winds can be a real eye-opener, too. Want words of wisdom from G-98? Here ya go: If Jim Cantore shows up in your neighborhood, get the heck outta there.
More like scared $hitless, if you know what I mean. Both Frances and Jeanne were downgraded to Category III or lower by the time they hit the beach, but that's still a lot of wind. Case in point, all the condos and motels are supposed to be rated for better than Cat III, but here's my nearby Ramada Inn, looking southbound on Highway A1A. Those dangly bits of wire over the intersection were once the anchoring points for the traffic signals. The north wall of the Ramada Inn was blown out by Jeanne, because Frances had blown in all the east-facing glass walls and sliding doors on the seaside. Jeanne also blew out the doors on the west side, and many were on A1A, most here seen piled up on the northbound shoulder. I'm certain that the buildings probably could've survived better, save for the fact that Jeanne moved so slowly that she packed sustained winds of 75 knots and better. A half-hour or so of exceptionally high wind is one thing, but several hours/one day of just high winds can be a real eye-opener, too. Want words of wisdom from G-98? Here ya go: If Jim Cantore shows up in your neighborhood, get the heck outta there.
joab
Member
Sorry for the side track.
My little community came together for the short term, but I saw desperation and frustration setting in by the 5th day. Another week and civility would be severely tested.
This year we have a small garden and my parents are smoking meat for everyone plus we buy a few non-pershables every time we shop. That way we don't end up with 10 cans of Bush BBQ beans, because that's what we had a taste for when we cached our horde. We have a very nice selection this time.
'OK that's something we can agree on
Jeff Timm
Member
All Floridians remember, June 1 -12 Tax holiday on Hurricane Supplies, see http://myfloridalegal.com/newsrel.nsf/newsreleases/D7FADC677CA2132A8525700E00559CDA
Geoff
Who has almost everything he needs, but the dual fuel generator was too expensive, and unavailable. My generator had to be imported from Ohio, after the first storm no generators were available south of the Ohio River!!!
Geoff
Who has almost everything he needs, but the dual fuel generator was too expensive, and unavailable. My generator had to be imported from Ohio, after the first storm no generators were available south of the Ohio River!!!
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