2004 Florida Hurricanes: TEOTWAWKI Lessons

[Travis McGee]

The current SHTF thread reminds me that hundreds of thousands of Floridians have recently lived through a dress-rehearsel for TEOTWAWKI. That is, multiple hurricanes which knocked out power for weeks, emptied store shelves, closed roads, destroyed bridges, led to looting and so on.

This reply by high roader "feedthehogs" is what made me think this thread is worth posting. I would like any Floridians or other hurricane survivors to chime in with their ideas. What is it like to lose power for weeks, to be forbidden by the police to travel freely, experience being looted by thieves etc?

What if most of the USA was in the same straits after a financial collapse? What if the rest of the country could not come to your region's rescue? What if the power stayed out for months, and there was no gasoline, food, water etc?

I think our cities would explode, and "Mad Max" armies would roam the countryside on foraging expeditions. I don't think our current police would be more than a road bump for countless thousands of bandits, looking for gasoline, food, a safer place to live and so on.

Here is feedthehogs reply which sent me on this rant:

"you don't list a state or town, but unless you live on a self sufficient farm, economic collapse is not something to wish for at all.

"Having been thru the huuricanes last year and without local power for the most part of a week each time, I know what its like to not be able to get fuel, water, electric, food, supplies, etc.

"I was prepared with two gen sets, two weeks worth of fuel, full fuel tanks in the vehicles, two months worth of food and drinks, medical supplies and you name it.

"But the overwhelming majority of my neighbors did not even have a couple of days food for their kids and everything in the frig went bad after two days.

"I never saw so many helpless, desperate people in my life holloring for the government to do something quickly or they would starve.

"A month of that happening and shear panic and riots and killings would occur.

"I was bombarded with requests from neighbors for food and supplies as they know how I prepare. I gave them each a couple of days of food and water and told them not to come back for more. I still have neighbors that won't give me the time of day because I wouldn't give them more. They think I was selfish.

"No, you don't really want a collapse. Not at all."

 

[ceetee]

My experience was entirely different. Yeah, we lost power after each storm (each of the three that hit us, that is). Yeah, we had plenty of canned goods, dried goods, and packaged drinkables on hand. There was some looting, but neighbors banded together... you watch my generator, and I'll watch yourn. People helped each other nail on plywood, and install each other's "blue roofs".

Food was getting in. Not a lot, and not at first, but it was getting in. Other supplies were getting in, too. The government did a decent job (this time) of assessing damage, and responding promptly. I even managed to scare up a dozen roses for my wife's birthday (at a time when all power was out, and all florists were boarded up tighter than a frog's backside).

It seems to me that people had learned from the past, and most were better prepared for the emergencies that arose than after Hurricane Andrew. The crux of it all, though, was that even though the storms covered the entire state of Florida (and parts of Alabama, Louisiana, etc.), this was a fairly localized series of emergencies. It was possisble for emergency response to come in overland, and come in quickly. Ask yourself what would happen to anybody living in the Keys, if the bridges got washed out. (By the way, there was a pretty substantial brige up in the panhandle that did get destroyed by Ivan, so it can happen, no matter how well they build them).

If there was a general emergency... say nationwide sabotage to the power grids, or all the banks shut down, and suddenly we have no way to transfer wealth, or buy things... Well, our supermarkets here only carry a couple days worth of supplies. The shelves get restocked from tractor-trailers on a daily basis. No food or drinkable items would be coming in from anywhere. I'd say that people would be getting pretty desperate by about Thursday...

 

[Harry Paget Flashman]

There was no EOTWAWKI during Hurricane Ivan. The government did a marvelous job. C-130's were landing every 15 minutes at the Pensacola airport with MRE's and bottled water the next day and continued for a week until thousands of of trucks/semi-trailers arrived with water, ice and MRE's at Saufley Field for dispatch to a dozen relief sites all over the county. I was priviliged to watch the government do something right. Fema brought in forestry service people from Idaho, Georgia and South Florida to help with logistics. They mobilized Federal workers from many agencies and National Guard Units to assist the county. They did all the grunt work and were at the disposal of county government.

Power crews came from everywhere and were virtually in every neighhorhood within days. With the electric grid in total collapse and a third of the poles snapped or bent, they restored power to 100% in 3 weeks. They got power to hospitals and gas stations first. We had a short-lived gas lines. We had traffic signals run by generators on day 2. There was no Armageddon. People pulled together. There weren't but a dozen or so incidents of looting...and most of the perps caught.

I work in county government and helped coordinate distribution of relief supplies and I'm here to say I am very proud of the citizenry and government.

While natural disasters may present some wonderful plot lines for Hollywood
screenwriters it also presents some wonderful opportunities to restore one's faith in human nature.

 

[bubbygator]

I think the key thing is that it would take more than a local disaster to create uncontrolled panic. Other communities in the state responded pretty quickly; and communities outside the state + the Feds responded with massive efforts - as described above. Everything didn't get resolved - but there was a feeling that help was available. It's the apparent lack of hope that triggers large-scale panic.

 

[Standing Wolf]

I gave them each a couple of days of food and water and told them not to come back for more. I still have neighbors that won't give me the time of day because I wouldn't give them more. They think I was selfish.

Altruism, I've noticed, often makes matters worse, not better.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Florida hurricanes of 2004 were not TEOTWAWKI. The world did not end. Everyone knew that restoration of the norm was only a matter of time. The 2004 hurricane season in Florida simply resulted in a series of geographically and temporally limited hardship events. Everyone in those events knew this to be true and did not respond to the events as if they were the end of the world, but as short term localized (even if considered regional) events.

In feedthehogs' situation where he is quoted as noting he helped out some neighbors who thought poorly of him for not giving them more, had it been TEOTWAWKI and the neighbors not expecting help, then they would have killed him for his resources, but it wasn't TEOTWAWKI, just a temporary situation.

 

[del4]

Ditto what Harry Paget Flashman said.

My family and I evacuated to my brother's house in Louisiana. Ivan hit Thursday morn and I returned Thursday evening to survey damage and to protect my home. Minor damage to my home. Most of my neighbors took some major damage, a few lost their homes completly. I spent the night listening to the radio. Plenty of good info being broadcasted. A lot of "we can do it" kind of stuff as well. My next door neighbor had a generator, I didn't. I did have camping equipment like camp stove, lantern etc. All of our food was packed up with my family in La.

The next day I returned back to Louisiana to help my wife take care of the kids for a couple of days. Everything was safe at home. My neighbor said he would watch the house.

My brother started getting e-mails on how there were roaming gangs looting and killing people. I returned back home. I brought some canned food and none perishables back with me. I brought the dogs and most of the stuff we evacuated with back with me. My dogs and I started the clean-up. At night we hunkered down. Never any problems, though I was glad to have my M1A and my little duty belt with my kimber and spare ammo at my side.

After the power came on in a couple of weeks I called my family back. Everything went smoothly.

People were out in the streets talking and getting along. Lots of Bar-b-q's. We were all helping and watching for each other. Lots of restored faith in my fellow man. Government was even helpful. Insurance Co's suck.

- good evac plan
- non perishable food
- camping equip with fuel

I didn't miss not having a generator, as a matter of fact, I thought my neighbor's was loud and annoying. Logistical feat to get enough fuel to run it. Nearest fuel was in Grand Bay, Al. The curfews were ignored and not enforced during the day. I saw very few cars at night.

Always keep your home well supplied, be prepared.

Del.

 

[feedthehogs]

Everyone is right that the hurricanes were not the end of world senario.
But they were a glimpse of what can happen.

By the time Ivan rolled thru, the other three hurricanes already had power companies and distribution centers up and running.

The hurricane thru Punta Gorda, the first one and the two thru Palm Beach and Martin counties two weeks apart did not have the same organization that the pan handle did.

We were without power to most gas staions for 5 days in the first palm beach storm. And when they got power, most ran out of gas the first days and did not get replentished for a while because the second hurricane diverted ships from the Everglades port where we get our fuel from. Grocery stores after two days had to throw all perishables out and untill power was restored, did not have supplies. Most could not even open. Those that did used portable gen sets to get power to run the registers to sell can and bagged goods.

Lift stations had no power backup and overflowed sewage for most of the first week. Those that had wells, had no water and those large utility companies had little if no backup gensets. The shelters had so many people living in them that they had sewage problems and had to close numerous shelters due to unsanitary conditions.

It took a week just to get most major intersections with lites on. Curfew was enforced and over a couple hundred people were arrested and taken to jail during the first 4 days.

Before the hurricane we all helped each other board up houses and while alot of people did cope and have some fun during the aftermath, I was astounded at those who were helpless.

Very few people who needed supplies also failed to have cash on hand and when the atm's didn't work, they were out of luck.

Looting wasn't a major problem, but had it gone on for another couple of weeks it would have been.

You also have to remember that the pan handle and northern fla are a world apart from s. fla. Population density for one.

For us anyway, it was a glimpse as to what can happen real quick in a major disaster when you depend on anyone or anything for survival.

One thing I learned was how quickly your supplies can be used up and while we all knew the power would be restored, the 9 days the first time and the 7 days the second time in the heat of the summer really sucks.

 

[Travis McGee]

Feedthehogs:
You make the point very well (which I must have not made well enough in my first post) that the hurricanes were not TEOTWAWKI, but they came close to being a "practice run" for what the opening week or two of TEOTW might look like.

The folks who experienced the power out, ATMs out, gasoline out, water out etc, can probably imagine better than the rest of us what the second week, month year would be like, if the power did not come back on. If the power went out nation wide or even over a large region, and there was no national cavalry riding to the rescue, it would get very dicey very fast.

I live in SoCal now, and we don't have any bad weather, really, but I'm moving to Florida next year. For sure, a gen set and lots of stored fuel will be high on my list. During times of plenty, it's amazing how cheap, almost free really, staples like water, rice, beans etc are. If TS ever really HTF, a year's worth of water and staples would really be invaluable.

But of course, your neighbors (and their kids) would be starving after a month at most. Then what?

And of course, the "urban youth" will be on the prowl, when their bellies start to growl.

 

[Chrontius]

http://pegasus.cc.ucf.edu/~ia656516/There Will Be Dragons.zip

Sorry about the spaces in the filename. Hope you enjoy this one

If you all like it, I can post the next two books; PM me.

 

[P-35/53]

With the first storm we lost power for 7 days , second only 3 third was 7 days . Luckily my oldset son had power within 48 hours the first two storms . On the third he lost power for 8 days . We always keep a months worth of non persihable food during Hurricane season so it was geting low when all the fun ended. D cell bateries were impossible to find till right before the third storm .Most hazardous was the lack of traffic lights if you did have to go out .We had to cook all the meat from the freeer at the first storm but invited friends and neighbors so none went to waste. We had no looting or odd behavior in my cul de sac neightborhood and saw no Police cars even. I and my oldet son had concealed pistols on hand and a loaded shotgun inside the house. We fed several of our elderly neighbors who had no back up food or way to cook it. We even had to supply one neighbor with battreies for her flashlight. Thirty years ago mass disruption of society and mayhem might have sounded intresting but after your 50 air conditioning and a easy chair sound better for the long run.

 

[del4]

Another option to gas driven gen sets are the ones driven by natural gas. Natural gas is hard piped in to your generator from the gas co. They automaticly start when power stops. They are even set to self test once a week for 5 or 10 minutes. They are common around here.

Natural gas is pretty reliable. Maintaining large amounts of gasoline is difficult. My neighbor's 5000kw generator blew through 7 gals of gas per night. It was running his travel trailer's a/c and some lights. He only ran it at night. You would have to keep a couple of drums of gasoline just for two weeks. He had to work on it just to get it runnning again.

Also, propane grills were invaluable to many people. RVs with propane refers were also handy. Propane is very efficient. Me, I had to learn to live without A/C and hot water .

If you don't have gasoline, electricity, natural gas or propane, something really bad has happened. You had better start living off the land right now.

Del

 

[Aikibiker]

My thoughts in no particular order. Stream of consciousness writing style brought to you by the fact I just got off a 12 hour shift at work at 8 am.

I found the 2004 hurricanes to be mostly an annoyance. Not having power in the middle of summer was a pain. The clean up was long back breaking and dirty. You get used to cold showers pretty quickly when they are all you can get. Life without the internet is boring, how did I ever live without it?!?! Intersections with two turning lanes are really dangerous without traffic lights, I was glad when they blocked the turning lanes. Everyone in the county had a pile of brush in front of their house 8-9 feet high, reminded me of pictures of the hedgerows of Normandy.

Everyone in the neighborhood really banded together to help each other out. People actually talked to their neighbors because they were outside working and being in the house was to hot without air conditioning. It was actually a little sad when the power came back on and everyone ran indoors. We had no crime problems in our neighborhood at all. I think th ecops drove through once.

I now have a keen interest in alternative energy and getting off the grid. I recently found a website that sells hydroelectric generators for the home. Wish I had a stream on the property. I think the man that invents a desk sized battery operated fan and markets it in Florida is going to be a millionaire. If it is solar powered he will have more money then Bill Gates.

 

[Mannlicher]

Having 'been there, experienced that' several times, I have to say that with the exception of Andrew, most of the hardships were short term, and fairly eaisly delt with. Hurricane damage is usually somewhat localized, ie, this block or mile or so destroyed, the adjacent land almost untouched. There has been no shortage of Government involvment and help. Other communities have always pitched in and donated food, water, clothing. Insurance pays pretty quickly. You could almost say that Hurricanes are a form of 'urban renewal'.
I have never felt the need to arm myself to stop looters, or to protect my home.
Most of the SHTF stuff is fantasy.

 

[Hutch]

Gotta chime in here. During the winter-storm-caused power outages I've been thru in Birmingham, the best comes out in people. We shared firewood, kerosene, generator time, etc. Crime dropped to near zero (right along with the temps!). As long as everyone believes that an outside force is working to restore the status quo, I think people really do band together.

On the other hand...

If there was no prospect of relief in the short term (days to weeks), then I think things would turn muy ugly. As it dawns on people that there is no assurance that help is on the way ("Normalcy is just around the corner"!) then I think mistrust/distrust would follow, probably followed by looting or vandalism. I was one of "them", the y2k scaredy-cats, and I have sworn myself an oath never to consider TEOTWAWKI again. I gathered up all my Gary North and Howard Ruff literature and boxed it up. I still enjoy a good TEOTWAWKI novel, but they're not guidebooks any more. Short term emergencies, I can and do prepare for.

 

[Fred Thompson]

OK, my two cents worth.....
I live in the Ruskin-Sun City Center area, and, by the grace of God, we didn't get that much damage here. What I did notice, though, was the gas supply around here being non-existant. With everybody evacuating and the shipments being interrupted by the weekly hurricanes, gas was scarce for a little while.
And yes, there were a few dirtbags lurking around, generally people pulled together to get through it.

 

[Daedalus]

If you leave your generator outside I am going to share the experience a friend of mine had with a clever theif:

Reading a book with the lights on after dark, generator running. All of the sudden the lights go out. He hears the rumble of the generator outside so he thinks something tripped the breaker. Fumbles around for a flashlight, checks the breaker box, lights are still out. Goes outside to check on the generator and finds his lawn mower chugging away where his generator used to be.

 

[jeff-10]

Florida is always a special case. Being arguably the most important toss up state in a presidential election we always get tons of attention and money when hit by hurricanes. Its like every resource the military and federal and state goverments can come up with gets thrown at us. No national figure wants to be shown as apathetic to the plight of Floridans who could easily decide who is the next president.

What the hurricanes gives us is a glimpse of what it would be like if the event wasn't localized and no one came to help. In Florida a thoroughly overcrowded state filled with senior citzens and some of the hottest weather in the country things would get horrible fast. We have monster condo-cities filled with 80+ year olds who for the most part don't even have the ability to leave there unit. Imagine if the power didn't come back on and the trucks and airplanes stopped bringing in food and fresh water. What if all the roads became jammed? What if most of the greater metro areas of the country were going through the same thing and didn't have time to worry about us?

 

[Stevie-Ray]

We went through a bad time back in 1980, where I live now. I lived in a neighboring city back then, but my folks were here. Depending on who's reports you listened to, the area was ravaged with 3 to 7 tornadoes and straight-line winds of 140 mph in a period of a few hours. Trees were uprooted everywhere, and damage was extensive to vehicles and buildings. Power here was out for about 2 weeks, while the city I was in, with their own power, restored in about 8 hours. We worked for several days cutting wood off of cars, homes, and fences, while using undamaged vehicles to visit less-damaged cities for supplies. The whole city pitched in to help each other, but I still remember it to be an absolute hell for my mother, and none too fun even for us more fortunate people. I can't even fathom our whole state going through this for even longer.

The Eastern Seaboard power outtage was scary. But at least that was for less time.

 

[P95Carry]

had it been TEOTWAWKI and the neighbors not expecting help, then they would have killed him for his resources,

Referring to feedthehogs. I rather think he (feedthehogs) would have been well enough armed in such a situation to ''repel all boarders'' ! So it becomes -

"then they may have tried to kill him for his resources"

 

[Arc-Lite]

no offense here...but hurricanes have been hitting florida for how long ??? like is this some new news ??? if your living near a hurricane area, and its getting near summer...and your out without a clue.... then, if its not a hurricane to knock you down....if will be the big truck.... you just stepped in front of BLINDLY. NEWS FLASH....hurriane season hits EVERY YEAR...be prepared or be without.

 

[joab]

no offense here...but hurricanes have been hitting florida for how long

The last one to hit my area was in the 60's
Florida has never been hit by 4 major storms in one year in recorded history.
Normal and even above average preperation did not suffice this time

 

[Arc-Lite]

joab....I am glad they did not hit you personally.... this does not change the fact... florida is hurricane country....now that 2004 happened, recorded history has changed... hurricanes don't really check historicial patterns.... nature doesn't care. If you live in bear country, best be set for bears...even if YOU don't see them often.... Hopefully something was learned from the 2004 season, or.... if everyone went back to sleep....as they did following 911

 

[joab]

If you live in bear country, best be set for bears

But' if you live in Black bear country, do you prepare for Kodiaks.

hurricanes don't really check historicial patterns

Actually yes they do, that's how the weather people are able to predict how many storms we're going to have in a given year, and how i know that we get hit with a hurricane this far up every ten years. Just never been this bad before.

For the most part most people were prepared, at least the natives and semi natives were. They just weren't prepared for so many

Still alot of lessons learned. Top of the list for me is to listen to those weather people from now on.

 

[Arc-Lite]

joab...just to be clear, I feel for every storm that hits and cause such distruction...but just thinking you do not live in bear country...doesn't make it so... this past year showed the value of historicial patterns.... they change, and they change without printed notice... to predict the weather is a questionable art... all major hurricanes form off the noth west coast of Africa....traveling in a noth west direction...develope over the atlantic and move into your general area... and this happens EVERY YEAR. looking at the past, gves you past data, of the past.... with very little insight...to the future. how many people prepared after 911 ? how many prepare today ? it ..sadly, is human nature, the alarm goes off.... we hit the snooze button.... and fall back to sleep. All peoples needs are basically the same, before and during and after a disaster....so why not prepare....for a season / event, that has bit you before, are your needs going to change, if it does not hit, you still use all the basics....of life, as you do in a disaster. If you hear, of a storm, at the same time, all of Florida does.... your just another face, in a long long line. It's summer 2005..... time to consider your learned lessons....or 2004 !